How useful is a panel saw in a woodworking shop? Are they a crude tool only good for rough cuts or do they do a good job when a good blade is used? If they don’t do fine cutting, would one still be worthwhile for cutting panels down to size before making the final precise clean cut on a table saw? It seems to me like a panel saw would be nice to have and I have the floor space for one, but I have never used one.
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In my experience, panel saws are not that fine a cutting tool. They do have the advantage of not having to lift a sheet up onto a horizontal saw. They are primarily used for cross cutting but you can turn the saw and push the sheet through, you do need to use a kerf spacer. I don't know too many that would use it for precision cuts or ripping.
Some panel saws can be replaced with a router. If you do a lot of case cabinet work, cutting dadoes, ploughs and the like, a panel router is great. Many commercial shops use them. The router swings out so you can position the pieces. There are often pneumatic clamps to hold the work and stops can be placed on the bars to limit the router travel for stop dadoes or secure the router for pushing a piece in rip fashion. The horizontal rail is usually raised so your not working at your feet. No more clamping straight edges to guide a hand held router or edge guides. The better ones are quite expensive. For processing plywood sheets, the beam saws are the top pick. They have scoring ability and excellent accuracy.
Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
Interestingly enough the words "panel saw" brings to mind different things to different folks. To me a panel saw is the ultimate in precision as I've been using sliding and beam saws over the years in industry. Then there are the cheap horizontal panel saws that are fine for roughing out plywood. With enough tweaking they can do a good enough job to prep for the cabinet saw. Since you have room consider getting an Excaliber sliding table to add to your existing table saw. I think you will find it a worthwhile investement over the cheaper panel saw.
I am starting to think that the panel saw (Milwaukee) is not a good choice for the space and money when a precision splinter-free cut is the goal. I thought about the Festool plunge saw which is similar to the EZ Smart Guide mentioned in this thread. Now a sliding table is sounding like a good choice for the space and money. I recently installed a Biesemeyer fence on my table saw, which I really like, but it looks like it would not work with the Excaliber sliding table mentioned in this thread.Edited 4/12/2005 9:21 pm ET by BillEdited 4/12/2005 10:34 pm ET by Bill
Edited 4/12/2005 10:35 pm ET by Bill
Bill,
You can't beat the Festool system for splinter free cuts. Using the system, there is not really a need to take the panel to the TS. I upgraded my rails on my cabinet saw to the 54" just prior to getting the festool, and really don't use it all that much over what I had.
The Festool system doesn't take up any floor space, (except when you are using it) has excellent DC, and is very versitile. You can cut finished panels with the plunge saw. The stock blades they offer will handle 99% of cuts with excellent results. Recently I ordered a special blade to my spec & am astounded at the results. Splinter free cuts cross grain on both sides (L&R) and both faces (T&B).
Add the MFT & its easy to square panels & repetitive cuts, dados with a router, etc.
As far as a good panel saw goes, You'd need 20' clear of wall space and around $30K to get splinter free cuts. Also, add on a scoring blade attachement, & figure on $40K.
Even sliders take up alot of floor space.
Your prices on saws are way high.....a new Euro slider with scoring and a 10' stroke can be had for under $15,000 Cdn (you CAN pay more, but don't necessaruily have to)......smaller stroke is less money.....and like some of the other posters note, used ones are all over the place for not a lot of money. Take a look at http://www.ex-factory or some of the other used equipment sites.
They do take up a lot of space....figure around 400 square feet for a ten-footer.....but they're worth it.cabinetmaker/college woodworking instructor. Cape Breton, N.S
I was talking about a vertical panel saw that cuts vertical and horizontal, not a sliding table saw. The good ones aren't cheap, especially if you want accurate cuts, repeatabiltiy & chip free cuts.
Sorry, I missed that somehow in your post.cabinetmaker/college woodworking instructor. Cape Breton, N.S
You're right. My new SCM Si300 was $14K CDN with all the bells and whistles (overarm guard with Dust collection, protractor arm, and it's 12" with a separate motor for the scorer). It's an awesome machine, and I can't say enough about it.
But the Streibig Vertical Panel Saw we had at my old shop, or the Holzma Beam saw were in a different league altogether.
I wouldn't expect to see a panel saw in a shop of less than 12,000 SF, or with a high volume output (I bought a used SCM TS from a guy who replaced it with a Holz-Her Beam saw (no TS anymore) All he made was production runs of office furniture- all the same, bought his material in drops (6+ lifts)
On vertical saws some cutsaren't easy: ripping a sheet into 3" strips, for example. But they can section panels down to make gable, or cabinet parts like nothing. Even two or three sheets at a time.
For occaisional use though, a wormdrive skilsaw with a straightedge and a 40T+ blade works about as well as most low priced panel saws.
Just my opinion of course.
Actually the Excaliber will work with the Biesemeyer fence. You just move the rail a bit. I know of several folks using the same system with no problems. There are several blades that offer splinter free cutting. One of which is the Forrest HI-AT which gives perfect cuts in melamine.
You have to spend a bit more for a decent upright panel saw. I think the one you are referring to is actually a Safety Speed cut and it uses a Milwaukee saw. Hve you seen http://shopcartsusa.com/ I recall that Hafele has one priced better.
I had a Safety Speed Cut in one of the shops I ran, and I thought it sucked. I got better accuracy, better cut quality, and at least four times the production with just a regular cabinet saw. IMO, the best choice for a small shop is a slider.
I agree with the above comments about what it takes to get a vertical panel saw that performs well, and I never saw the advantage of them over a decent slider, myself. I found it a lot easier to wrestle panels onto a horizontal saw than onto a vertical one, but maybe that's just me.
A slider has a larger footprint in one sense than a cabinet saw, but even with a cabinet saw you have to have room to swing the material, so in a sense the slider doesn't take up a lot more dedicated space, and with a vertical saw you still have to have room for your infeed and outfeed stacks......
You can pick up a decent used SCMI slider for about $2500, and it will replace your cabinet saw and a vertical panel saw both. You can also put a scoring saw on most sliders, if you really want clean cuts.
Michael R
I'm not crazy about Safety Speed cut saws either. Used to work for a dealer that sold the line. The more expensive ones are better and you have to pay a lot more for a good upright saw like a Streibig than a slider. Just set up a Paolini 8' slider. Nice saw for the money. Around $11,000 but even the Grizzly panels saw is pretty good for the money I'd be willing top bet. I had a SCMI 4' slider I picked up for $1,750 that was a dream for the money. Been using industrial machines for 35 years so I know all about the difference in quality. Still it's the operator and not so much the machine in some ways.
A good panel saw is a great tool to have. Cheap ones cut rough, but a good one will have flip-down stops, variable speed, and some even have rollers to move panels. They'll cut with precision. I recommend it-makes cutting panels so much easier.
Edited 4/12/2005 2:54 pm ET by JACKPLANE
Here is an alternative to a panel saw that is dramatically less expensive, and yet very effective:
http://www.eurekazone.org/products/ezsmartguide.html
It will cut panels with great precision with virtually no splintering (which can be a problem with a conventional panel saw).
You can also rig this guide with a router.
If you do a search over on Breaktime for "EZ Smart Guide" -- you will find a lot of comments, and many satisfied customers.
And no, I have no vested interest in EZ Smart. ................
"I would never die for my beliefs because I might be wrong."
-- Bertrand Russell
I purchased a second-hand 30 year old german Kamro panel saw. Three phase, 7hp. Sliding table. Big old cast iron monster. But it's the backbone of my shop. It cross-cuts, rips, scribes, you name it, to perfection. I glue right off the rip cuts. And can cut accurate / square panels quickly. Been running for 6 years and hasn't missed a beat.
I live in an area with lots of woodworking galleries / furniture work shops. Look in the back and you'll see a big old panel saw doing the work.
Maybe we're talking about different panel saws, but to me, they're indepensable for good woodwork / cabinet work.
Bill, get a panel saw!!
You get what you pay for.
The 15,000 Maggi I used to use worked to perfection. We only used it if the 175,000 CNC Beam saw was busy......
The crap they use at Home Depot is lucky to be within an 1/8"; and They don't tune up very well; but then again, they don't pretend to be any better.
There's a place for every type of tool; only you know if it's your place.
Caveat Emptor.
If you owned a precise panel saw you would not even want to use any other type of cutting device. Streibig makes the best I have ever used. It has precision setups, a high speed motor, crosscuts and rips with ease, two sheets at a time, and a roller setup that allows rotation of the sheet without removing from the machine. The machine works like a pantograph drawing table and is as accurate. I love mine but it has a $20,000 price tag that makes it for the serious only. The production capacity makes it a must for cabinet making with profitability in mind.
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