Replies

1. 
   tms | Feb 21, 2005 07:19am | #1

   Hi Molten,

   If you go the sliding table route, you will use it for more than just cutting panals. I have a slider, and appreciate it with every cross cut regardless of size.

   Tom

1. 
   JMartinsky | Feb 21, 2005 10:28am | #4

   Which slider do you have? I have heard that some (Excaliber) can be sensitive to being bumped. What is your experience?Thanks!John

1. 
   tms | Feb 22, 2005 04:29am | #7

   Hi John,I have a MiniMax CU300 smart combinaton machine. One of the things that sold me on the machine was the video that showed one man mitering an entire sheet of plywood by himself, safely.If you need to cut a number of sheets quickly, then I would probably recommend a panal cutter, but in a small shop, the combination machine with a sliding table is proving itself to be the right choice for me.Tom

1. 
   JMartinsky | Feb 22, 2005 04:47am | #8

   I am with you as far as the MM goes. I looked at them and if I had the $ it would a no brainer. Even if I sold the tools it would replace I would still be well short. It is a goal, however and perhaps some day, i'll get there! Hope you enjoy it!John

2. 
   jim | Feb 21, 2005 07:29am | #2

   Molten;

   If you have lots of panels to cut the vertical panel saw wins hands down no contest.  Lots easier to cut a stationary sheet and faster too. Good luck.

    

    

    

    

    

    

    

    

3. 
   CRAIGCONEY_M | Feb 21, 2005 08:26am | #3

   Check out the festool ATF55 system.  It's alot less outlay than a panel saw or slider, will give you finsished cuts with minimal, if any, tearout or chipping.

    

    

4. 
   jaypoe | Feb 21, 2005 04:19pm | #5

   I would opt for a vertical panel saw over the slider for a 10" cabinet saw. If I had the space I would go with a large capacity sliding table saw (easily cut full sheets 4x8 stacked) like Martin, SCMI or one of the other euro saw. I dont think that sliders for 10" table saws come close to a slider of that type. Vertical panel saws like the Safety Speed Cut are great for shops with limited space that cant afford (space and $$$) a 12' slider. SSC paired with a 10" table saw make a great shop that can really produce cabinet parts. A 12' sliding table saw (Martin) is my dream shop saw (without going full automated beam saw or CNC).

5. 
   georgek | Feb 21, 2005 05:56pm | #6

   Hiya molten,

   Sounds like you closed the deal, good job! Like it was mentioned before, I'd go with the Festool system. I don't own one, neither do I own a slider or panel saw. I order all my plywood precut from my lumger supplier.

   Save your money and buy a MiniMax 330! I can't see a better system out there INMHO. Good luck.

1. 
   jimmyk | Feb 22, 2005 03:48pm | #10

   I'm really close to closing a good deal, but don't have the $$ in hand yet. I'm just trying to figure ways to work fast if/when I get the big job(s).
   As for the MiniMax...well...maybe a little over budget.

1. 
   jaypoe | Feb 22, 2005 04:17pm | #12

   If you go the route of a slideing panel saw, look for a used SCMI. They can be found for around $3000. They are not as nice as the Martins but also cost a lot less. Might need a phase converter to run it if you dont allready have 3 phase equipment. SSC vertical panel saw has moved up on my list of tools to buy. Plan to buy one early this summer.

6. 
   Barrie2777 | Feb 22, 2005 05:12am | #9

   I purchased an aftermarkey sliding table which was added on to my Delta Unisaw. It was undoubtedly one of my best buys as it is very versatile from cutting large panels to doing multiple tenon cuts. In conjunction with a matching rip fence all panel cutting is done without a tape measure. Just check the first cut for accuracy, then cut the rest!

1. 
   jimmyk | Feb 22, 2005 04:02pm | #11

   I appreciate the idea of using the sliding table for more than just sheets, but I already have a very expensive sliding miter saw that does most things under 12", and I have a tenon cuttung jig for the TS.

   The panel saw has a few advantages in my mind: Easier to load material, especially if it's stored leaning against the wall in a nearby rack. I think it may save my back not having to lift heavy 3/4 sheets onto the saw table. Plus it can cut multiple sheets safely.Molten

2. 
   JMartinsky | Feb 23, 2005 01:28am | #14

   Which slider you you have?John

1. 
   Barrie2777 | Feb 23, 2005 02:20am | #15

   I bought an Excalibur rip fence and sliding table. Some of the inner parts of the rip fence have been replaced but nothing has been done to the sliding table. I am a full time woodworker for 25 years building everything imaginable. Both units get plenty of use on the only tablesaw I have. They were also very easy to install and the units came with all the needed parts and drill bits necessary for new holes.

1. 
   JMartinsky | Feb 23, 2005 03:16am | #16

   What about bumping it? Does it need to be reset? Can you clamp down pieces quickly? Thanks!John

1. 
   Barrie2777 | Feb 23, 2005 04:30am | #17

   I have found that the rip fence is easy to bump out of position but the sliding table is always set. I occasionally check it and seldom find that it needs readjustment. If you are the only one in the shop it is much easier to know what is happening to your machines. Readjusting the mitre fence to 90 degrees is also very simple. Removing the mitre fence requires loosening the tightening knob, flipping down the 90 degree stop and lifting it off.

2. 
   JMartinsky | Feb 23, 2005 05:02am | #18

   Are you able to cross cut a full panel?John

3. 
   Barrie2777 | Feb 23, 2005 06:16am | #19

   To cross cut a full panel you must place the mitre fence at the rear of the sliding table. I have the smaller model but I believe there is a larger model where you would not have to do this. My model will cut 28" without changing the mitre fence. It has a travel of about 52". If you want to contact me at [email protected] I could scan and send you the specs from my manual. As far as clamping panels down, it can be done since the table is open. I rarely do this. It is easy to hold the panel to one of the cross members of the table. I do sometimes use a clamp when cutting a mitre since there is much more tendancy for the panel to try and slide because of the angled mitre fence. There is a "T" channel in the mitre fence. I only have the adjustable stop sliding in this. It is possible that there is a hod down jig which also fits into this "T" channel.

4. 
   Barrie2777 | Feb 24, 2005 05:02am | #21

   In the perfect shop we might choose to buy machines which can perform only one task but with limited budget and space this ideal may not be possible. When I have a job which requires the cutting of many sheets of plywood or other sheet material, the whole cutting process can usually be done in one day therefore this would be the end of the usefulness of a dedicated panel saw until the next sheet job comes along. With the aftermarket sliding table you will continue to use it day after day after day....

7. 
   woodensplinter | Feb 22, 2005 11:41pm | #13

   In my dream shop, I have a vertical panel saw.  Although the sliding table is an excellent choice, it does take away the ability to do much with the fence on the left side side of the blade.  For me, this is unacceptable.  Until my dream comes true, I'll cut my panels with a guide and circular saw.

8. 
   jazzdogg | Feb 23, 2005 07:34am | #20

   Molten,

   We have Holz-Her vertical and horizontal panel saws at school. I've attached two snapshots of the vertical (no shots of the horizontal on this PC).

   The horizontal model works very well - except that if you extend the scoring blade too far, its belt breaks. We have both of these saws equipped with high-quality blades and limit their use to cutting manufactured sheet goods only - no lumber.

   The horizontal unit cuts like a dream, but it's relatively easy to knock it our of alignment, and it takes up a lot of floor space. It's not the kind of saw you can use for routine tablesaw tasks because the extra large table and slider keep the operator a fair distance from the blade.

   If I could have a PM66 and a panel saw, I think I'd opt for the horizontal only if I had a HUGE shop. Otherwise, I'd get the vertical model.

   Hope this is the kind of info you were after,

   -Jazzdogg-

   Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, you're right.

   
9. 
   CharlieP | Feb 24, 2005 06:10am | #22

   I am only semi-pro, but I recently got the top-of-the-line MiniMax combo with an 8 1/2 foot sliding table, and even my wife says she wishes I had gotten it 25 years ago. 

   On my regular table saw, I found I had to allow 20 minutes for a precision cut on a full sheet - infeed and outfeed stands, balancing the sheet, shallow cut first to avoid tear-out on the bottom, second cut in the same kerf, etc.  With "dear, can you help me" it still would take 10 minutes or more. 

   A few days ago, working alone with the new machine, I cut two full sheets of hardwood plywood into small pieces, accurate to a few hundredths of an inch, in a total of 20 minutes.  My productivity and accuracy have skyrocketed, and my procedures are much safer.  

   If I had the saw 20 years ago, I would have made the cabinets for kitchens 3 and 4, rather than buying premade cabinets (I made the cabinets for the first two kitchens, but it took many months, so bought cabinets to redo the next couple kitchens).

   I recently retired to do woodworking, and the machine has improved my productivity so much that I can handle MUCH more work - I am already profitable (nice treat for a retirement activity).  I can't imagine a professional shop that can't justify one.

   ________________________
   Charlie Plesums  Austin, Texas
   http://www.plesums.com/wood

1. 
   polarsea1 | Feb 24, 2005 09:27am | #23

   Sounds good to me. Hope you have a long and happy retirement with that saw. ;)

2. 
   yona | Feb 24, 2005 02:00pm | #24

   Hello Charlie,

   I absolutely agree with you. Actually I do not understand how come that sliding tables (like MM or others) are not the standard machines. Most of the articles I read here and on FFW about TS are advocating "primitive" machines that had not changed for 50 years. Unfortunately the European machines are expensive and it is not clear to me way there is no American manufacturer jumping into this niche? I wish someone would have made small/medium size machines that will fit basement shop size.

   It is very difficult to explain how much those machines are better, but mainly its their SAFETY. Once you try it - you never go back to anything else.

   Have fun

    

    

    

   Edited 2/25/2005 8:31 am ET by yona

1. 
   CharlieP | Feb 24, 2005 05:15pm | #25

   I think the problem is the American "bad attitude" towards woodworking.  People say it is an expensive hobby. 

   A few years ago I anguished over $600 for a contractor saw that has indefinite life, but spend $1500 ever couple years on a personal computer (the one advertised for $500, with a couple options).  My most expensive woodworking accessory is my minivan (to haul lumber and the results of my work); which cost twice as much as my MiniMax and won't last nearly as long, but we think nothing of spending that much on a vehicle. 

   The reason my wife wishes I had the machine earlier is that she sees it would have made it easy to build a lot of things that we had bought - that it would have paid for itself (she is an accountant). 

   But I degrade from woodworking to the cafe!________________________Charlie Plesums  Austin, Texashttp://www.plesums.com/wood

1. 
   georgek | Feb 24, 2005 05:25pm | #26

   You're absolutely right Charlie, a couple years back I bought a Jeep instead of the MM. Now I use the Jeep to take the dog to the beach. How I wish I was smarter! I'd rather have the MM and a scateboard!

10. 
    BABAUCHI1 | Feb 24, 2005 10:50pm | #27

    i enjoy cutting sheets with panel saw.  if you can afford one get one  you will be glad you did..   i have had my panel saw for over 30 years  with a good maintence schedule it will last a lifetime.   you will notice the difference when you have a lot of cutting to do...  if you get the automatic one that clamps and cuts... you will be in heaven... i have that one. 

11. 
    ring | Feb 25, 2005 04:12pm | #28

    we run a professional shop making kitchen cabinets, with 6 people in the workshop.  We have had a 10' sliding carriage saw from SCMI for 10 years now and I  can tell you that one worker cuts all the sheet goods for a typical kitchen in about 2 hours without breaking a sweat.  The saw runs all day every day, because it's just a pleasure.  With only a blade change it rips 2" maple or oak perfectly.  It gets a weekly cleaning and just keeps going.  It does take a lot of space but I wouldn't change it for anything.

    DR