Need advice – how best to stick paper patterns to sheet brass?
Laying out a brass and steel dovetailed palm plane (pattern attached) and I want to glue the pattern directly to the brass and then saw to the lines.
With what, folks (avoiding wetting the paper!)
Malcolm
Replies
Malcolm2, I have had luck printing my patterns on adhesive backed paper right thru my Epson printer as if it was a t-shirt iron on. Shelf paper is my choice for this and is quite simple to accomplish. Looks like your drawings are in autocad...... aloha, mike1
Of course!
Adhesive paper
Beautiful
Malcolm
Make certain your printer doesn't enlarge the image slightly and that there is no sheet distortion while printing.
Jeff
This is just a guess, but I recently had to attach a paper pattern to Corian to cut out a design for some inlay. I tried spray on adhesive and it didn't work very well. Next I tried epoxy and it soaked through the paper too badly plus made the ink run somewhat. I started looking around the garage for some Duco type cement with no luck, but I stumbled across a tube of auto gasket cement. Hmmmm. In desperation I tried it and it worked out very well. I suspect it might work good for gluing paper to brass as well.
Waddaya mean it wont fit through the door?
Malc,
I use masking tape and lay out the lines using a square and a bevel.
I use a fine point red ballpoint pen. Works fer me!. Steinmetz.
Shellac, shellac and shellac. Easy on , quick to dry, easy off no mess.
We need to see the finished plane, please .
Philip Marcou
Edited 10/24/2005 5:23 am by philip
> We need to see the finished plane <
This is going to be a busy week - no further progress until next weekend!
Malcolm
http://www.macpherson.co.nz
Edit - the plane pattern is based a small wooden palm plane I made a year ago - very satisfying mouse shape, but didn't work well in wood so I'm having a go in brass and mild steel.
Edited 10/24/2005 6:05 am ET by Malcolm
Exactly! What we used in the tool crib...
Spray-on adhesive intended for sticking photos into albums. Photo places have it, as do art stores. 3M makes a good one.
As a metalsmith my favorite way to do your project would be to make a master template out of acrylic plastic and scribe it to the metal using Dykem or a simple magic marker. Easy to align it to the flat edge of your stock and you flip it over for left and right. A scribed line is more accurate than a printed line on a pattern. I use the 3M 77 or generic equivalent spray adhesive. An equivalent fast tack adhesive goes for about 1/2 the price of the 3M and will work with wood, plastic, metal, etc.
You seem to be still getting set up tool wise. Investing in a cheap imported metal cutting horizontal/vertical bandsaw (around $200 US) would be well worth having.
I'd use a jigsaw mounted in a table as one option. Remember 3 teeth should be in the material for best results. Anymore teeth is slower.
There's some good books out there on basic fundamental metal working covering layout, basic minimal hand and tool use. A good text would cover all your needs and then some at this point.
> There's some good books out there on basic fundamental metal working <
Do you mind naming a couple for me please? If you had to pick just one book for a beginning metalworker (with OK hand and machine skills) what would it be?
Malcolm
I could be very wrong.. I got on in the Army.. LONG AGO... A training manual I think.. Wish I still had it!
A negative hook blade on the table saw cuts non-ferrous like butter. It would be simple to cut out dovetails and rip brass to size. I've cut all sizes pf brass up to 3" thick on the tablesaw using a contractors saw, cabinet saw and miter saw.
I've used a saw similar to the milwaukee 6370-20 on steel...unbelievable! I've cut 1/2" steel plate with it. I'm going to get a blade to try on my table saw...same arbor size and rpm so it should work.
http://tinyurl.com/cd26l
http://www.milwaukeeconnect.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=27&catalogId=40027&langId=-1&productId=284449&mainHeader=Tools&categoryId=189345&mainCategoryId=362&parentProd=281173
A negative hook blade on the table saw cuts non-ferrous like butter
I've thought about using my table saw - and my SCMS! Hate the idea of all those chips all over my woodworking gear, and potentially getting ingested in places they shouldn't be.
I gave my young nephews (tradesman builders) my old POS table saw, and now I wish I hadn't!
If I end up doing more of this, I'll think about investing in a cheap Ryobi just for metal. I see ferrous metal blades for sale at my local Big Box retailer - claim no heating/sparks.
I looked at cut-off saws, metal bandsaws etc in an importer's showroom in my nearest city earlier today. Will think aboutsome of those options in future as well.
Malcolm
You are making things more complicated than it needs to be.
More complicated than need to be ...
Yes, thanks. I'm staying away from my table saw because I'm loath to get brass and steel saw dust everywhere - especially in my unprotected motors!
May consider a cheap dedicated machine.
Malcolmhttp://www.macpherson.co.nz
What kind of saw do you have?? My saw has a Totally Enclosed Fan Cooled motor. I've run hundreds of feet of brass, aluminum, etc with no problems.
It appears you have a Minimax. That saw would do very nicely cutting brass with no ill effects. It has a TEFC type motor.
Double sided tape works well, although don't use anything too sticky or you'll have a mess to clean off after
Andrew
Thanks
I'm also wondering about heating a paper pattern - it might go black .... and then where would my fine lines be?
Malcolm
Malcolm, it never occurred to me that you wanted to use a paper pattern for the dovetails, until I read Rick's post.
He is absolutely correct-for the dovetails and any other critical marking out there is nothing better then the purple engineers marking dye, which dries quickly, and a scribe. Paper for the d/t's would be horribly inaccurate-errors will also happen when you actually place the paper-how do you reference it, and to what?
Kingshott's book explains how to mark out -it'll set you straight.
I used my loupe for this plane-would just have been guessing otherwise.I am talking about the kind you wear across you head, and the lens flips down when required-indispensable.
I laid out a set of dovetails directly on the brass and didn't like the lack of precision.
So I used my graphics programme to derive a set of regularly-spaced, symmetrical dovetails - then thought 'how do I get these on the workpiece?'
My approach will be to fix the pattern to the brass, but use my angle grinder mounted in a holder to cut the outlines of the dovetails. I figure I can't do it freehand accurately enough, but if I can set up a machine, I can. I'm not going to try to cut to the lines, but just use the lines on the pattern as a guide, then mark the matching pins directly from the tails.
I think if I cut the steel first, to final dimensions, then cut the thinner brass slightly too big, I'll be able to pein the brass into the steel.
I'll let you know how I get on!
Malcolmhttp://www.macpherson.co.nz
Malcolm, not good, not good.You must have accurate, thin lines to work to. The dye makes it easy to see a very very thin line* as produced by a scriber. I suggest, in the absence of milling machines etc, you cut to your slanted lines with hacksaw and hog out the waste with angle grinder, then refine with files. If you set the workpiece between two pieces of angle iron acting as a depth stop for the angle grinder it wiil be easier.
*it is not like woodwork, where the line from a .5mm drafting pencil is considered thinnish !Philip Marcou
> You must have accurate, thin lines to work to <
Thin lines is one thing, working to them is something else! In the absence of a 'milling' capacity I'm reduced to woodworking techniques. I will follow your prescription, plus a combination of stops and spacers to cut accurately-spaced outlines of slots for dovetails, and a grinder wheel for hogging out the waste.
I reckon I can do it!
Malcolm
http://www.macpherson.co.nz
Edit - Philip, I commonly do joinery jobs without marking the wood at all. Using stops and jigs and my Euro slider and SCMS, and a sketch to keep me on the right track, I cut pieces of wood to dimension without actually using a pencil.
Edited 10/25/2005 6:01 am ET by Malcolm
Good luck.Even if your near vision is good, the head loupe is also a great help.
I am getting tired of my plane project now-should really suspend it for a bit,but it is working on my mind. Much better to get a kit...Philip Marcou
Malcolm,
The critical technique for fitting is hand filing. Its just like you need to be able to use a plane for woodwork. Like using a plane/ handsaw, its all about balance, stance, getting the shoulder behind the work and long strokes with both hands on the file.
If you can get this bit right, the rest falls into place. Ask Phillip for a recommended set of files, but my 2c would be a minimum of a medium and fine cut safe-edge rectangular files of a size suitable for your task and the same for triangular files. Yu might need to grind one face smooth on the fine triangular file to get a safe edge.
The basic metal work books address filing, and you should practice a bit. With the right files it can be pretty quick. it will also go a long way to solving you champher problem.
Hope I'm not telling you to suck eggs.
Dave
Patto, you're not teaching me to suck eggs!
I've figured out that if I don't have milling machinery, it's down to accurate marking out and hand skills (and technique). I have a really good collection of files, most of them in good condition, and a small angle grinder with 1mm and 1.6mm cutoff wheels and grinding wheels, (and a Dremel for fine work) and I just need practice!
More this weekend.
Malcolmn
Malcolm,
My father started as a fitter before he joined the Army. Many years before I realised what he had taught me.
david
> Many years before I realised what he had taught me <
Me too, sort of. I did a session every week on metalwork and woodwork for a couple of years when at high school. Fragments of what I learned got me started as a studio furniture maker many years later, and now I'm finding bits of the metalwork are coming back.
For example, someone mentioned blued steel in a parallel knots discussion about planes. I'd forgotton all about that, but instantly remembered doing it to finish a bottle opener that I made at age 15!
Malcolm
I've figured out that if I don't have milling machinery, and want good stuff Ya WRONG! If it is really what you kike to do get even a Grizzly small mill.. I love metal almost more than wood!
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