HD is offering these for $128; good price and it’s about time they got the lever lock. However, they are marketing them as the “new, improved 1 3/4 HP”, though they still rate at 10 amps like the old, unimproved ones they said were 1 1/2 HP. My lights aren’t blindingly bright in the electrical dept., but from what i can tell this means they had to make the motor and/or power transmission more efficient. So far, i haven’t been able to find out anything they did to it to accomplish that from any of the sites i checked out for reviews.
Any of you catalog junkies or EE’s have more insight on this?
Replies
Splintie
I totally agree about the lock lever. Of course those kind of things always get corrected after I bought the previous. Ha.. That is a good price on the router as the 690 is a reliable old stand-by.
I cannot totally answer your question, as I blew what I had thought for years to be the correct theory when I first came to this forum about 7 mo. go. I can tell you it has to do with the way they set it up internally. Howie and some of the electrical folks will hopefully respond as it is gets a little complicated for the average person. I found out the hard way. I mainly posted to keep this thread rolled to the top so those folks will hopefully spot an respond.
BTW, if you do get it add the Navajo design as it needs some color to brighten it up. Grin<> You may not know the elec. thang, but you got the color thang down-pat.. Ha..
sarge..jt
The Porter-Cable 2002-2003 Product Catalog lists the 690LR as having an 11 amp motor, but I guess they initially came with the 10 amp motor. I can attest to that since I have one. It is basically the same motor (the 6902) as the older version 690 series.
As for the apparent increase in horsepower, I think a recent conversation with a Bosch representative at the woodworking show might shed some light. I asked him if the 1617EVS router got a motor upgrade because they were now being touted as having 2.25 hp as opposed to the 2 hp when I bought mine two years ago. He said it was the exact same motor, but that they resubmitted it to Underwriter's Laboratory to get a higher rating. Their motive was to position the 1617 into direct competition with Makita and DeWalt, both of whom had mid-sized router lines with 2-1/4 hp motors. It was basically more a marketing ploy than an engineering feat. In fact, if you look at the router itself (be it the Bosch or P-C) you will find no mention of horsepower, only amperage. It is only on the box that you will see the horsepower rating prominently displayed.
Although I have no direct knowledge of Porter-Cable using this tactic to "sneak in" an extra 1/4 hp, I would not be surprised if this was the case. Nonetheless, the 10-amp 690LR is a good router, and at the price you mention, a great value considering I paid $30 more for it about one year ago. But when they claim "new and improved," I am suspecting it is more "new" than "improved."
The power of an electric motor is equal to the current times the voltage, this is the figure almost all manufacturers quote for tool power, though some of them qualify their rating with the phrase "input power". Input power is always higher than the power available to do useful work due to friction loss in the bearings, energy required to ventilate the motor, spin the motor shaft, etc. So improved efficiency in the motor can change the output power and hence make the tool more powerful without increasing the input power.
The algebra is P=V*I
where: P = power
V = volts
I = current
Edited 11/13/2002 9:24:21 AM ET by ian
The motor itself - the rotor and stator have losses due to such properties as heat. The actual motor laminations are stamped from steel - used to be plain sheet steel but now with the demand for efficiency and power, steel with special compositions known as electrical steels help improve motor efficiency, keep the heat down and give more output power. Computer chips are also being used to monitor current flow so that you get optimum power from a tool motor. And as some else pointed out, it is also how the machine is tested by agencies like UL and of course marketing spin. The moral - stick with a machine with some history and one that you know is being used in tough applications like a production shop. The basic PC 690 is a classic - a real warrior - the newer models are probably good but need some field experience before I would buy one.
I did an online search at Porter Cable for the specs on this page and also at Amazon, where it lists at 10 amps. Interesting that Ricky's catalog lists it as pulling higher amps--a new wrinkle. I would suspect an actual motor upgrade would warrant a new model number, but it sounds more like the UL shell game.
I already own two of the T-handle 690's; one is an incredible workhorse, but the newer one always had a vibration that fresh bearings didn't remedy, so i was cautious. And the thought that HD might be getting a "special" kind of router just for their stores...well, their return policy ought to protect me, eh? Thanks, guys.
Like everyone else, I wish the manufacturers would stop lying about "horsepower." However they arrive at their figures, it is outright lying because: a) they omit the information about how their figure was measured (if at all), and 2) they do it with intent to deceive.
Even if they somehow do measure a high horesepower figure at, say, the moment the windings melt, there's no way the consumer can reproduce that figure. Routers come with 15a cords and plugs. Presumably, most users plug them into outlets protected by a 15a breaker or fuse. Fifteen amps at 120 volts (more will trip the protection) is 2.41 horespower maximum electrical input. With very good conversion, that might be at most 2 horsepower of mechanical power.
A more honest rating would be a comparison to something with which woodworkers are familiar. The PC 690, for example. It would mean something if the manufacturer stated that this router has the power of 1.5 PC690s. Or that a laminate trimmer was rated at 0.3 PC690s.
Besides, Mr. Watt was a Brit. If it ain't American, it's junk.
Donald, I don't know who is more Patriotic, you or Benjamin.
Donald, I don't know who is more Patriotic, you or Benjamin
I'm glad you recognized the reference; it's been so long since we've heard from Mister Quality.
I was really hoping Sgian would bite.
I also was hoping to hear from the kilted woodworker!!!
Edited 11/13/2002 8:47:42 PM ET by Lar
Joule was English, too. And Ohm Bavarian. I smell a Europlot.
I want Benjamin to come back and make good on his offer to buy my Shopsmith!
And let's not forget that Frenchman, M. Ampere, who, despite rumors to the contrary, had nothing to do with the development of the Shopsmith.
Follow-up: I bought the router, which lists on the box that it pulls 11 amps instead of 10 (still advertised this way at Amazon, however.) In any case, it runs a lot more smoothly than my other two. I bought it for $128 at HD instead of Amazon's $140, and HD is now offering a 10% off coupon for the holidays...a great deal for $115! I may have to get another for a spare...
Colleen
OK, what's the deal with the 10% coupon at HD. I'm in there about every other day as 3 miles and on the way home. I have never been offered anything. Do you have to have made a large purchase to get it.
I almost got a Ridgid 13 1/2" planer, but they wouldn't come off the price to off-set the state sales tax. Got the Delta 22-580K form ToolCrib with free shipping and no sales tax for $409. If there was a coupon available, I probaly would have opted for the Ridgid as it has glass smooth cranks and the life-time warranty.
Gonna chew on someone if my local has the coupon available. They all know me. If I don't show at least every other day they call to see if I'm sick. he..he..
Evening in Montana, maam..
sarge..jt
I don't think I would put a lot of stock in that lifetime warranty if I were you Sarge. It looks like nothing more than a marketing gimmick to me.Here is an excerpt from the warranty;RIDGID¯ tools are warranted to be free of defects in workmanship and material.
How long coverage lasts
This warranty lasts for the lifetime of the RIDGID¯ tool. Warranty coverage ends when the product becomes unusable for reasons other than defects in workmanship or material.
Looks to me like when the tools wears out, the warranty is up.
Tom
Tom
Defects in material. I don't know how that translates in law terms. Will have a friend who is a lawyer and WW read the statement and give me his interputation. I'm sure you could start a thread on that one. Just recieved my new Delta 22-580 thickness planer which has the two year warranty. Probaly says the same thing, essentially. Will check to see this evening.
What I do know is that no protable planer that gets a lot of use will last forever. Machine parts wear from friction and like we humans, going to break down someday. I don't have any expections beyond that in reality.
Ha.. I know both HD's store managers personally that I deal with and sometimes it is a judgement call by the manager. That's why I made a point to get to know those managers well. They know I am there often and drop a lot of bucks with them. I refer a lot of new-comers in a local club there also. This sometimes helps sway a border-line call. It certainly doesn't harm that decision.
Happy Thanksgiving..
sarge..jt
Good evening to you, too. I'm taking my supper and tea, getting fueled up for another 3-4 hours. Me 'n' the other elves are gonna start a union...
The coupon came in the mail, said it was good with anything charged to a HD or Expo card. I guess they don't like that i pay cash most of the time and are trying to convince me of the Joys of Plastic. Getting a card is pretty simple: they signed me up on the spot when they first opened and were offering a 10% off deal on the first CC purchase. I have no idea what an Expo card is, however.
Love the "life-time" warranty!
PS: The offer is valid Nove 29-Dec 8. I rec'd 3 coupons, so let me know if you would like one or two.
Edited 11/26/2002 10:22:35 PM ET by SPLINTIE
Colleen
Yes, I would like to use one if you are not going to take advantage of all three. I didn't apply for a HD card as I usually just write a check. I would probaly just use it to scrape ice of the windshield of the vehicle in the morning. Ha..
If you could mail me one, I would be most appreciative. I'll repay the stamp in some way as I don't like to owe anyone and I try to stay on the other end of charity.grin<> IMO, better to give than recieve.
Will e-mail address. If you get busy and forget, I understand that also. Know you're busy and don't like to be a bother. Thanks for the offer and will re-pay somehow, even if it's just encouragement.
Happy Thanksgiving and good luck with the show...
sarge..jt
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