OK; I said that I’d report what I learned at work. Word from my manager is that Porter Cable production will be moved to Mexico. He’s so sure of this that we will not be carrying the PC line when our current stock runs out. Looking real hard at Bosch to replace with.
If you’re looking at a PC tool purchase, you might want to get it now, before the dumbing down happens.
Replies
I saw a few articles talking about this about a month ago. A lot of PC's were made in jackson, TN. Now I think they are keeping a router bit manufacturing there and movings everything else to Mexico where all the dewalt stuff is already made. I think they laid off 75% of the people in TN.
Besides the quality suffering, the thing I would worry about the most what will still be made. I have a handful of different pc's and I worry about parts and accessories in the future. I wouldn't buy anything pc or delta right now just because you don't know if it will be discontinued 6 months from now, then what, if you need a part or accessory?
Parts could be a problem. I know that I had to throw away a 12V PC driver/drill because the reversing switch couldn't be replaced. I had an early production model and they changed the design of the switch, which would not fit mine and that was all that they stocked.
I'm not sure where Bosch is manufactured, it is just one of several lines that our company is looking at.
Engineering is the most critical part of the tool, not where it is manufactured, but it just seems like quality suffers when manufacturing gets moved to the 3rd world countries. I own several things built overseas and they seem to perform just fine. Like any other purchase, you have to do your homework first.
"Engineering is the most critical part of the tool, not where it is manufactured, but it just seems like quality suffers when manufacturing gets moved to the 3rd world countries."
It suffers because you know where their main focus is, keeping costs down. Costs are always factors but if you don't make quality, who cares how low your costs are. I like the box store conveinence as much as the next guy but I think they are the major drivers of the lower quality tools. When you think about 15 or 20 years ago, what percentage of tools were bought by professionals or at least high ability DIYer's. I would say up words of 80%-90%, now you have a lot of complete morons buying a huge number of tools. (example the post on breaktime about the genius who strapped a dozen 4x8 sheets of drywall to the roof has his escalade, with the free HD super strong twine, guess what happened)
These people don't use the tools enough to kill a crappy dewalt drill or a ryobi anything so they think everything is great quality. A sale is a sale, whether it is a pro user or a moron, so companies like dewalt keep marketing towards the moron crowd with junk but as long as they keep selling, I don't think you'll see dewalt type companies changing anything they do.
DDAY-
I am either confused or stupid--help me out here. Why do you think that the quality of the product will decrease if the production is moved to Mexico. Do Mexicans deliberately make a lower qulaity product that an Italian-American or French-American?
My point is --- It does not matter where the product is produced. What matters is are the specs the same, is the quality control tight......
If we (consumers in general) only bought products made in America we would have to have very big pay checks to satisfy our greedy society.
A product is a product...where it is made does NOT reflect low quality.....the corporation's commitment to quallity is what counts. So if Black and Decker allows the quality to slip it is Black and Decker's fault. The location of the production is not the cause.
Are you with me now brother....
Thanks-
Thank you,
The Great Marko
I think you either you misunderstood what I was saying or you mixed up who posted what.
I absolutely blame the engineers for the poor quality tools. The factories in any country only build what the spec's call for (really the machines build everything anyway), so even if Ryobi's where built in the US, they are complete S**T. What is somewhat of an indication of where the companies focus lies, is where they manufacture the tool. When someone manufactures in china, you know right away that right at the top of their concerns are low costs.
Let's hope when a company (Black & Decker), with $5.4 Billion annual sales, pay $750,000 for a few acquisitions, they don't follow suit of most others and let the good brand names die, due to bad decisions.
If they were serious about building their new acquired brands, the least one would expect is some write ups in FWW, or other publications. Has anyone seen something?
I don't get it. Where is Bosch manufactured? I think its Asian.
Porter Cable quality has not been there for a while. I have two of the new 890 series routers and not real impressed. More like what I would expect from Black & Decker or Skil. All promises, poor execution.
Getting harder to find quality handheld power tools, looks like we'll all own European if we want anything of real quality.
But we pay for it. PC sander $75, Festool $300.
I can't say I've noticed a big difference between Mexican or Asian products categorically. I'm sure there are differences in specific cases.
As far as "dumbing down", production workers don't make those decisions so Billy Bob, Pedro, or Ching-Lee won't affect that.
To me it really doesn't matter where the tool is made, its the engineering that matters. The factories in mexico and china make crap because that is what the engineer designed. If that same factory was in Michigan, it would be the same exact crap. I look at festool more and more. There are very few Dewalt or PC tools I would buy, I like Bosch, Hitachi and makita much much better.
Ditto.I wish I could spend more money on all-American but its not easy. Its easy to take a stand on principle but when the performance isn't there it is an issue. See: American cars in the 70's and 80's.I prefer to spend money in my community, local or national. But I have a hard time rewarding mediocrity.
As far as quality is concerned, why do you think moving the PC mfg/assembly operation to Mexico will send the line down hill?I'm with DDay on this one. It's the engineers who create the designs and spec the materials. Where it is manufacturered and assembled, I don't think, really has anything to do with the quality of the tool.Since the dawn of the Industrial Revolution, production has always chased cheap labor -- sometimes for the better, sometimes for the worse. But it is the reality we have to deal with.........................."I would never die for my beliefs because I might be wrong."
-- Bertrand Russell
"I don't care if people make computer chips or potato chips"
Frank
Well said.
Dick--
Well put..could not have summed it up better
KUDOSThank you,
The Great Marko
The last two Bosch products I bought were made in China and Mexico.
Maybe the move to Mexico will spawn new repair products. Remember "Case-savers" for post '68 VW cases that were so soft the head bolts would pull the threads out of them? Instead of router lifters there maybe router savers. Fortunately my Passat was made in Europe and has none of the quality issues that the Jettas are having.John O'Connell - JKO Handcrafted Woodworking
The more things change ...
We trained hard, but it seemed that every time we were beginning to form up into teams, we would be reorganized. I was to learn later in life that we tend to meet any new situation by reorganizing; and a wonderful method it can be for creating the illusion of progress while producing confusion, inefficiency, and demoralization.
Petronious Arbiter, 210 BC
Its time we push Hilti into the woodworking biz. Then well get some great tools from our own country.
I thought Hilti came from Deutschland............."I would never die for my beliefs because I might be wrong."
-- Bertrand Russell
It did, and company headquarters s still there but...
There are no more borders for Hilti. Our products are manufactured in seven countries across three continents - in Liechtenstein, Austria, Germany, Hungary, the United States, Mexico, and China.
From their website http://www.hilti.com
Clearly, Hilti is a making a major push for sales in the USA (witness their alliance with HD). And their tools (mainly for the construction industry) are getting high marks.But why do you say......"Then we'll get some great tools from our own country" if we buy Hilti? Certainly that's not the case. I really think supporting this "made in America" notion is old fashioned thinking. We're up to our eyeballs in a world economy, and I would argue that tool buying decisions ought to be made on the basis of price, design, engineering, durability -- and a given company's willingness to stand behind their product. I really don't care where, geographically, a tool is made. "I would never die for my beliefs because I might be wrong."
-- Bertrand Russell
Made in USA is a out of date concept.These corporations are international not national.They make products where the cost of prodution is lowest and they can pay low wages and don't have to worry about pesky things like safety regulations.If they want to produce quality goods they can no matter where it is manufactured.Even Boeings rival Airbus has some of the parts for it's new super jumbo jet made in the USA.The bottom line is all that counts.
If all this crap about overseas tools doesn't mean anything how come the Europeans ain't jumping on the bandwagon big time. Seems pretty funny to me that we have to go to Europe to get decent tools because we're too cheap to pay for it staying here. And yet we all want our customers to understand why it cost so much for us to make that piece of furniture. Its BS. Then we belly ache about gas prices cause them people over there can afford to buy scooters and cars and need gas. its gonna bite us in the a** one way or the other. Why not keep it here.I was belly aching to a friend
He ask me what kind of gas mileage I got
I said about 14
He said will you walk 14 miles for 2.25There are four boxes to be used in defence of liberty: soap, ballot, jury and ammo. Please use in that order - Ed Howdershelt
My close friends father rails about toyota camry's, honda accords, etc. Only buys GM products, says he buys american. Only problem with that is most of GM's parts and assembly are done in mexico and canada. A few years ago the only "american" made car was a toyota camry or honda accord (I forgot which but the other was close behind.) 100% of the parts and assembly was done in this country.
A side note, my friend always used to say how if it bought a japanese car his father would kill him. So I asked why's that. Because they tried to kill my grandfather in WWII. The only problem with that is his grandfather was deployed to Italy. When I mentioned that he didn't have too much to say. That was a few years ago, haven't heard the "If I bought a japanese...." since.
Back in the 70s and 80s Youngstown Sheet and Tube complained about imports.At the same time they were buying Japanese steel and reselling it.I think that the dumbing down of the country is just about complete.I hope someday that American workers will start looking out for each other.These corporations have all the rights and privileges of a individual and none of the responsibility.
Bet your buddy would buy a Ferrari though if he was in the big chips.......or a MercedesWicked Decent Woodworks
(oldest woodworking shop in NH)
Rochester NH
" If the women dont find you handsome, they should at least find you handy........yessa!"
LOL. If he ever brings it up again, I'll ask about that.
I support any company that supports American workers, buying things made where you live will never be "old fashioned". I really don't care if you choose to buy your tools with your pride or you wallet, thats your choice, I would prefer a well made tool over a poorly made tool - from any country, but preferably my own.
As for other "global economy" people, my wife almost lives at Wal Mart, but when economicly feasible I choose to buy from locals/
My commenon Hilti is that thier tools rival festool in quality and design, and they provide jobs in our country outside of big boxes. I also have a lot of Milwaukee tools, but the woodworking market has been better understood by PC, DeWalt, Makita...
I'd like to see some US engineered and built tools tackle woodworking with a little more finesse and a little less rotary hammer robustness.
I was in Deutschland long ago.. We got a case of 'POP-Tops' DELIVERED for about $5 US WITH the TIP!
Company went to Mexico for assembly..
We went Chapter 11 soon after!
No I do not hate Mexicns!
This forum post is now archived. Commenting has been disabled