PICNIC TABLE FROM COMPOSITE MATERIALS
Has anybody ever built a nice outdoor dining table from composite materials, instead of real wood?
Ever since composites have improved in quality and color/texture selection, I have been intrigued by the idea of substituting durable, weather-resistant composites for “real wood,” like clear Doug Fir, Redwood, Cedar, etc.
Some of the new composites are really beautiful, but I have never worked with this material, so don’t know what sort of fasteners work best, including glues, screws, etc. Not to mention how the material works with common wood-joinery techniques and tools.
We live in high desert Colorado, where outdoor furniture is subjected to the extremes of temperatures and lots of UV absorption, too. A very harsh environment for conventional wood products.
I’d like to build a good-looking table that looks like it’s made of cedar, but only has to be hit with some detergent and a pressure washer, annually, to look like new.
I would enjoy hearing from anyone who’s familiar with these products, can suggest a manufacturer, and maybe has a suitable plan for a large, stable outdoor table.
I would love to know if anybody either has plans for such a table, or can suggest a good source, online, where a plan might be found.
Thanks, everybody, for your help.
Replies
Composites are getting prettier, but they are still not structural.
When the leaders of my church's congregation asked me to build a picnic table with composites, I built one with a frame and supports from treated lumber. The table top and the bench tops were composite.
And note that you'll need full length supports under the composite benchtops.
Here's an outfit that is quite proud of its "lumber" made from recycled plastic: http://www.plasticlumberyard.com/
They make patio furniture with it. They also have pages and pages of structural data on the stuff.
You mention that the folks at plasticlumberyard.com have lots of structural data.....And they do. And most of the data shows that plastic lumber would not be good choice for the structural elements of a picnic table. For example, the joist span charts show that a picnic table would need to have "joist" spacing at 12" centers, using 2X6 plastic joists, to support the top (assuming 60PSF, and that the ambient temperature doesn't get above 80 degrees.And that you'd probably need doubled 2X8's, run lengthwise, under the benchtops.Technically, this means that the stuff can be used for a picnic table. But, IMO, the table would be extremely heavy, and it would look weird and clunky.Also of interest, is that all of their pictures show the plastic lumber being used with metal frame structures.
Politics is the antithesis of problem solving.
sasquatch
get a catalog from McFeely's, the screw experts, and it will have some good info on fasteners for composites.
I have to agree with the previous poster - durable, but not structural.
I have built (or, rather, assembled) numerous picnic tables with 2x8 composite - a couple of different manufacturers, neither name comes to mind at the moment. These were drilled to a provided pattern and bolted to purchased tubular steel leg sets. Probably not what you are envisioning, but several points to consider: 1) they all have bowed down in the center, tops and seats both, and have acquired a swayback look - perhaps as much as 1/2" over 6'. 2) If placed on uneven terrain for an extended period of time, they will twist as well, trying to conform to the uneven base. 3) The first stuff was worse than the current stuff we use, full of voids that showed on the "end grain" and tended to break at the voids when being lifted. 4. They are, admittedly, far more durable than the PT or spruce used prior to the composite. 5) They are very heavy.
Single 2x6's used on edge for ski racks have invariably showed the same bowing tendancy.
I would not try using this stuff for traditional "A frame" type construction, nor with more sophisticated joinery. Tops and seats can be made with it, but again, nothing structural, IMHO.
composites.. As another posted they are not structural like wood is.
I made a HUGE deck for my Sister-In-Law. She has money to burn and then some!
I forget the brand name but it was very expensive and very nice looking. Easy to work with hand and power tools.
I did the deck and railings on the existing cedar supporting structure that was in excellent shape with true dimension 2/12 supports for the original ceader deck boards.
Lets just say that all went well UNTILL summer came. Not exact, I do not remember, but the supporting 2/12 were spaced about 22 inches apart on center. Not 16/24..
The composite decking sagged a bit. Not much, but noticeable. My Sister-In-Law went nuts! For the price she paid for the materials, I would have also! (My labor was free because she is family and besides I love her alot. Great person).
Anyway, I had to install extra supporting members underneath (between) the existing. Note: part of the problem was the weight of the people on the deck and the heat.
And you mentioned.. Fasteners. I used stainless steel made for the decking. I think the cost of the hardware came to about the cost of the materials!
AND that plastic gets REALLY HOT! Not sure I would want to sit on it!
Sir, I would stick with using Cedar wood!
Just my opinion...
EDIT:
I forgot. I will not mention brand names.. I recall that one Mfg. had issues with Mold growing within the composite.
Edited 4/10/2009 5:52 am by WillGeorge
Most composite material is designed to span only 16 inch center deck joists. Did you check the manufacturer's specifications before you built the understructure of the deck?
If the manufacturer said the material can only span 16 inch on-center joists and you had 22 inch on-center joists, then that's why the decking sagged between them. This is a well-known characteristic of this type of material.
You said it was the weight of people and sun on the deck that caused the sagging, but that's not accurate. Composite decking sags under its own weight if it's not properly supported....
Zolton
If you see a possum running around in here, kill it. It's not a pet. - Jackie Moon
Edited 4/10/2009 7:47 am ET by Zolton
46296.8 in reply to 46296.6
Most composite material is designed to span only 16 inch center deck joists. Did you check the manufacturer's specifications before you built the understructure of the deck?
NO!
BUT all the decking was OK except for where the folks seemed to gather. I added to everywhere.
before you built the understructure of the deck? .. It was sound and supported the old desk just fine...
OK yas' got me!
Edited 4/10/2009 8:14 am by WillGeorge
Edited 4/10/2009 8:36 am by WillGeorge
Thanks to everyone who responded.I think I've about ruled out composites, based on the feedback.So, the next choice would be a wood which stands up the the elements. I'd really like to find a species that doesn't need to be resealed every couple of years. Does anybody know which species of wood is the most durable in dry, mountain environments?
>>"I'd really like to find a species that doesn't need to be resealed every couple of years. "There are at least three elements that cause wood to deteriorate over time. One is water. The others are microbes/bugs, and UV rays.In my experience, the wood which best resists all three, is cypress. But note that even cypress must be kept out of contact with the ground.Cypress can/will last many decades in the weather, if not in contact with the ground. This is true even with no paint or protection. If its in contact with the dirt, its probably good for 6 to 10 years.
Politics is the antithesis of problem solving.
YesMaam,This table will be placed atop a deck, so ground contact isn't an issue.The main concern is climate. We are about twenty miles from Aspen, in Colorado, in an area that is "high and dry," with minimal rain in the summer, very dry air year 'round, but lots of solar radiation. Colorado has something like 300 days of sunshine during the year. We do get lots of snow in the winter, but I would bring the table indoors, in the garage, during those months.Just want something that I don't have to fuss over, and I've seen what happens to teak tables that people stain and seal; the sealer breaks down, pretty quickly, and the tables have to be sanded and resealed every couple of years.I don't want to fool with that mess, if I don't have to.
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