This is a follow up to getting 220v power to my jointer in the garage. How tough will this be to get a 220v hooked up? I posted already but figuered it would be easier to post the pictures as a new thread. let me know what you all think. these wires go straight from the box in the house. I believe it’s 100A service, and everything in the garage runs off of this supply line. I would like (2) 220v outlets. only need one right now. Can a seperate electrical box be installed? would it even help, considering what’s inside the house? The lights are also feed off this line.
I had to put the photo’s on the next reply, sorry.
Looking forward to hearing what you all think,
Edited 8/13/2006 11:21 pm ET by labatt50
Edited 8/13/2006 11:24 pm ET by labatt50
Replies
This is a follow up to getting 220v power to my jointer in the garage. How tough will this be to get a 220v hooked up? I posted already but figuered it would be easier to post the pictures as a new thread. let me know what you all think. these wires go straight from the box in the house. I believe it's 100A service, and everything in the garage runs off of this supply line. I would like (2) 220v outlets. only need one right now. Can a seperate electrical box be installed? would it even help, considering what's inside the house? The lights are also feed off this line.
Looking forward to hearing what you all think,
Here are the photo's
I'm not an electrician, but I did wire my garage, and my newly built shop in the back yard,for 220.It appears that the picture you posted is just a junction box for your electric service to the garage, and perhaps to some where else as well. You need to find the main electric service panel that this junction box gets its power from. You know the one with the breakers in it. If you can't run a new electrical line through the walls and or ceiling from your main service panel to your garage, then you'll have to run a new line outside the walls or ceiling using approved electrical conduit. The gauge of this wire from your main panel to the outlet or outlets your using,should be No. 10 with at least two wires with a ground wire according to code where I live. The eletrical wire you use has to be the proper kind that is rated for going through walls and attics.If your not sure then tell the electrical guy there at Home Depot of Lowes what your doing and they will steer you to the right wire to use. You'll need a 220 breaker that fits your style of breakers that are in your panel. You'll need a breaker for every 220 outlet that you install if your going to do it by the code. You could run a sub-panel from the junction box you haved pictured providing the wires that are coming out of that box are 10 gauge, which I doubt they are. If they are 12 gauge you still may be able to run one 220 outlet from this providing the 220 tool your are going to be using draws only a small amperage(20 amps or lower). To determine this you would have to consult with an electrician or check the charts posted at HD or Lowes and talk with an electrician there. More than likely you don't have any more room in your main panel to add additional breakers. You can make room in the main panel for additional breakers by replacing some of the existing breakers with the thinner double breakers.When I built my new shop I change out my whole electrically panel an upgraded from 100 to 200 amps. 100 to the shop and 100 to the house. It was a lot of work as I had to dig a 4' deep trench(Jack hammer and digging bars as I'm on decomposed granite) and lay conduit from the new panel to the street. The electric Co. provided the new line and installed it for free. As I have already stated I am not an electrician and before I did any electrical work that was beyond my understanding I consulted a licenced electrician. If you did'nt understand any of the advise I just gave you then it might be better for you to have an electrician do it for you, or at least start reading some how to books. In my shop I have at least eight 220 outlets and I wished I had more as I'm running out. All my stand alone tools run off from 220, even my slide miter. Hope this helps.
Edited 8/14/2006 2:36 am ET by brownman
I think you should hire a licensed electrician. You need someone to assess what power you have and put in new circuits for your machines. There are a fair number of considerations and/or code requirements that the electrician will be immediately familiar with. For example, you don't want the machines and lights on the same circuit. Otherwise if you trip a breaker, the machine is spinning down and you're in the dark.Pete
This is a tricky question. i am also not an electrician, although I work around it a fair amount. There ARE a couple of electricians over on the Fine Homebuilding Breaktime forums. They recently gave me some good advice about a barn I am wiring. You might try asking the same question over there.
That said, as a non-professional, here are the questions come to my mind:
1) How many amps do you need to pull? There are ways to figure this based on the load your tools will put on it whether tools will be used simultaneously, etc-- and an electrician should be the one to guide you. It is an extremely important question because your wire size is a function of the amperage and the distance. If your wire is too small, two very bad things can happen: a) it can get hot and start a house fire; or b) you can experience voltage drop to the extent that your tool motors can be damaged or ruined.
2) Based on the amps and the distance, what wire size do you need? The wires in the picture look like #10, which may be too small. I am about to rewire a detached garage workshop that is fed with 30A of 220 on #10 that is just not safe.
3) What about grounding? I only see three wires in your picture -- two hot "legs" and a neutral. That means the neutral is doubling as the ground which violates current code and is NOT GOOD. Grounding is tricky. Do it wrong and you risk getting fried or hurting someone else. You may need to do the run from your panel box with 4-conductor cable -- two hots, a neutral, and an equipment ground.
By all means, get professional advice on this.
Edited 8/14/2006 10:41 pm ET by Joe Sullivan
Thanks Joe,
I had an electrician come over today to look at it and give an estimate, I'm waiting for the estimate:(. He thought i had to run a new line from the panel box, like you said with a heavier gage. Honestly, i will not do this one myself but I do feel more confident with all the feedback everyone has given. I asked the electrician for an estimate on wiring in a seperate panel box for the garage as well. I haven't recieved the estimate yet, any idea on what I should be expecting$$$?
Not quite sure what electricans charge for time, which will be a big part of cost.
A new sub-panel (the box in your picture, updated) with breakers will run you neighborhood of $40 to $50. The feeder cable price depends on the exact type, where you get it, or how much markup the electrician puts on it.
Somewhere neighborhood of $1.75 to $2.50 per foot from your main panel, coiunting going up and down walls and around corners.
No idea how many outlets you want, and whether they will all be 240 on a single branch or whether you will do what I would do and go ahead and wire the shop completely with plenty of outlets and bit 240 and 120 and one time and get it over with. That said -- $75 to $100 of misc wire, boxes, and wiring devices (outlet recepticles, switches). Maybe a bit more.
Just when you weren't expecting...the price of copper skyrocketed. I'd expect $100+ for the panel, $4 per foot to run 6 ga feeders (provided an easy run), and $20 per outlet box you want installed.
If it were me (with enough electrical know-how to do the basics), I would buy and install the sub-panel and the outlets in the garage. Then hire the electrician to run the feeder lines and ground to your sub-panel. This gets your feet wet in electrical and saves you a little green. Be sure to leave your outlets open so the electrician can inspect them when he runs the feeders. Ask him to double-check your work before he throws the juice to it.
Good luck,
yieldmap
BTW, 12-2 romex, 250' rolls are now almost $100. I still own a couple of $20 rolls, thankfully!!!
Wire is high, for sure. Fortunately, I, too have several rolls of 12/2 grd, 10/2 grd and 10/3 grd with and without armor and will not be buying any house wire for a while. However, unless he really needs underground feeder, he should be able to find four conductors of THHN in a cable in the pride range I mentioned.
I bought a new GE panel with 8 spaces (no main) and a neutral bus with four 20A breakers for about $45 or so retail the day before yesterday at a big box. As a former electrical distributor, it pained me, but they were more than 10 miles closer than any legitimate distributor.
A main service panel with 40+ spaces and a main will run between $75 and $150 depending on brand and features (indoor, raintight, and so forth), but he proabbly does not need a big panelor a main breaker.
I agree with your prices, which is why I would suggest he do the panel and outlets himself. If he hires an electrician to do that stuff, he will pay at least $100 for the panel plus $20 per box for the labor and materials. $250 if he hires it, plus the feeders. Less than $100 if he does it himself, plus the feeders.
Trying to remember, my sub-panel in the basement has 20 spaces and came with breakers for $50. That outta cover him.
LaBatt...another thought...when you wire up your 20A outlets, DO NOT BUY them at the big box. I bought some 20A (supposedly Heavy Duty) outlets and broke the screws off tightening them. Get your stuff at a reputable electrical supply place for much better quality. The price may be 5% more, but you get repaid with the first outlet you break. I've learned this lesson the hard way.
http://www.galesburgelectric.com
Where I buy. They don't list everything on their website, but they have everything. Make up a list and call them...I think they ship.
Yeildmap has a very good point, often overlooked. there are multiple grades of boxes and wiring devices. The lower grades ("homeowner") are pricepoint items that frankly, are not very good. I went to a big box out of convenience, and because I wanted my box NOW. You will be way ahead to pay up a wee bit to get commercial quality devices.
Get them from a distributor.
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