I’ve done alot of house trim work and a bit of rustic furniture building, and am trying my hand at putting together some pretty delicate (for me) picture frames, about 1/2″ thick, 1″ wide, with rabbits on the back side to recieve the picture/matting/glass, and mitered corners.
Thicknessing, rabbiting, and cutting the miters themselves have gone well, and I bought a good corner clamp that allows me to dry-fit the miters nice and tight, and I had invisioned puting the joints in the clamp with glue and then using a finish nail (or something) to hold the thing together while the glue dries, but can’t settle on a fastener that won’t split the kiln-dried cherry…or if it doesn’t split, opens the joint.
Wht do you guys use, short of four clamps and alot of waiting for glue to dry?
Replies
Johnny,
I use a clamp system designed for clamping picture frames, etc. It's basically four long threaded rods with L-shaped brackets at the corners. Using Titebond, the frame only needs to be in the clamp about an hour.
For reinforcement, if the frame is wide enough I use a biscuit, which can be offset to the inside of the frame to keep it out of the outside corner. Another (and decorative) way to reinforce miters is a spline or key (from contrasting wood) that will show on the outside of the corner.
Regards,
Bill Arnold - Custom Woodcrafting
Mensa Member
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Food for Thought: The Ark was built by amateurs; the Titanic by professionals.
Thanks for your response.
For these small sized frames, biscuits are out (even if I had a biscuit joiner), and since I'm not going to be making these for a living, a more elaborate clamping system would be over-kill.
On the spline....what's your technique?
Have you ever used delicate little metal fasteners...kind of like really thin staples? I see some of these on manufactured frames I pulled off the wall for a look-see. Where do you get these?
Johnny,
Don gave an execellent description of how to cut a key slot in a mitered corner. Couldn't have said it any better myself.
Forget what you see on most manufactured frames. They have to bang the things together by the thousands, so they use expedient 'joinery'. Most people don't see beyond the face of a frame, so manufacturers can get away with it.
Regards,
Bill Arnold - Custom WoodcraftingMensa Member Click Here if you're interested in a good, inexpensive website host.
Food for Thought: The Ark was built by amateurs; the Titanic by professionals.
Alright, I think I can do that. I'll let y'all know how it turns out.
I used the 90° cradle technique and cut the key slots slicker than anything. Also noticed another picture frame that I bought as part of a painting that had the same miter fastening, but they had a narrower kerfed blade. Mine still worked fine, though, even on the 3/8" thick stock for one of the frames.
I use a Ryobi DBJ50 Biscuit Joiner that uses small biscuit that you can get at Sears 1/2" and smaller. I googled and found ebay had them at $40. Works great on very small items.
I jumped into this thread a bit late but I have a suggestion for clamping that works great for small frames. Use string and blocks. Get a length of string long enoung to tie aroung the frame perimeter. Tie it off snug, but it does not have to be tight enough yet to clamp it. Next insert blocks between string and frame (8 total, 2 per side) slide the blocks closer to the corners and the string will tighten. This will get plenty tight for clamping while glue is drying. I have found this works better than many different expensive frame clamps.
I have used the v-cradle technique as well, really works great.
John
Those v shaped metal fasteners are called "V-nails" they come in strips and are applied by an automated machine (a few thousand dollars) like this:
http://www.framingsupplies.com/itwamp/vn_4.htm
Garret Wade has a tool for inserting the clips (V nails)
Called a 'Pushmaster' 97R01.01 Price...$59.90page 62 in new catalog 2/06 Steinmetz
As my other main obsession is photography and printing, I have made over 200 picture frames. In order of preference/possibility, my fastener choice goes: biscuits, mini-biscuits, splines, V nails.
Basically, the bigger the X-section of the frame, the bigger the fastener you can use and the tighter will bre the joint. Mitres act like end grain and don't glue well. (Although I do vaguely remember a FWW article by someone who succesfully glued mitred boxes with no fastners at all).
With biscuits and splines I use brown PVA. With V nails I use Gorilla glue as it holds the small glue area at the mitre better than PVA, with small section frames, until it can be V-nailed.
You can V-nail without glue, especially if there's room for two V nails. You need to clamp the dry frame parts accurately and tight (see clamps paragraphs below). I sometimes put a short V nail in the rebated recess and a longer one in the thicker part of the corner. The nails come in sizes from 1/4 inch to 1 inch, in 1/8 inch increments. In the UK you get a box of 250 for about £5.
I use a pushmaster for V-nails because its easy; but you can tap them into place with a small cabinet maker-style hammer then push them home with any small, flat-ended bit of metal. They are very thin but strong and don't split the wood unless you put them very close to an edge.
Well-formed mitres are important, as is a good frame clamp. I cut the initial mitre on a tablesaw then trim it with a mitre guillotine. This provides glass-smooth, perfectly angled mitres that meet everywhere across the joint (no bumps, ridges, voids or tapered gaps). I know that some professional picture framers can achieve good results with a fine-tooth saw and a mitre block - but I imagine that takes a great deal of practice.
The Veritas-style threaded rods with L-corners and sliding brass lock nuts is the best frame clamp I've found for thin frames. You can control the squeeze and it would be difficult to overtighten (and crumple the frame).
I like the metal band-style clamps for bigger frames. These have a band that can be wound out of a spool through the four corners of the clamp. The corners are placed around the frame, the band locked in place and a screw thread used to tighten the whole assembly around the frame. You can put immense pressure on a frame, if its strong enough. This squeezes out glue but can also ensure that saw marks or other small irregularities on the mitre surface are forced together and any gaps closed. The clamps will hold up to a 2ft X 3ft frame or less.
Veritas clamps are a bit more expensive but very adaptable as you can add threaded rods to contain huge picture frames. You can also buy all the bits seperately so if you lose a nut or rod you don't have to buy a whole new clamp. I forget how much they cosy but the Leevalley site will tell you.
The metal band clamps are about £18 here in the UK.
Sorry for rambling on. :-)
Your mitered ends are so small that splines are required for strength. The grain of the spline should run prependiculat to the grain of the miter. For light frames, I glue all end grain corners and use a band clamp. When dry, I run the corners over the table saw blade with the frame held vertically. The corner of the frame is held in a "V" jig cradle during this cut. This yields a triangular shaped cut in the assembled miter. I then glue in a spline/key/feather perpendicular. Also I use a rip saw blade for this because the teeth give a flat bottom for the spline/key. Other blade teeth configurations yield a "V" at the bottom of the cut.
This joint is refered to as a "feathered miter" or "keyed miter". Trust me, taking the time to make a simple 45 degree cradle for the cut is time well spent. The resulting joint wil be very strong. Yes, you will see the edge of the spline at the corners of the miter joint. Same species and it's nearly invisible,constrasting species makes it an accent. I always glue in the triangular splines a little proud and use a flush cut handsaw to strim. then sand flush.
OK, Got it. Thanks for the detailed description. Any suggestions for how, exactly, to make the cradle?
It can be as simple as cutting a "V" in a 2 X 6 X12". Place the block and frame against the fence and away ya go. The first cut you make will cut a slot in both the cradle jig and the corner of the frame.
I made my cradle jig kinda fancy.
The four corner clamp works great, but if you wanted to use a nail to hold them together at the corners try a nail spinner. The spinner goes in the chuck of a hand drill. You place a finish nail in it and spin the nail in--virtually eliminates splitting. Or you could drill a small pilot hole using a finish nail as the drill bit (cut the head off, chuck it up and drill the hole) which will then be an exact fit for the finish nail. Just a thought.
I use four cut down Stanley miter clamps to glue and clamp the frame, then I cut the tips of the brads off with diagonal pliers and tap the
brads in with a small hammer.
Sometimes the frame (Or box) is too small for four regular sized miter clamps, so I cut several down to fit . I have dozens of those clamps and use them 'as is'for larger projects
Steinmetz.
A trick I learned years ago, is to spit on the brad before nailing They will rust in place.
"spit on the brad before nailing"And in a hundred years or two they will be able to clone you from your DNA in the frame so that you can make some matching ones for them. ;-)
Johnnyd,
My wife makes 8,000 to 10,000 picture frames a year. All you need is a $6,000 saw and a $2,000 V-nailer and you will be fine.
But, when you only need a few there is a much simpler way. About 47 years ago I began doing the custom framing for my dad after school each day. From small molding to large molding, small frames to large frames.
Your description of your molding dimensions sounds fine. As long as you have some way of clamping two sides (one corner) at a time, you can do it.
1. Make your miter cuts.
2. Stain or color the edge of the mitre right next to the finished portion of the frame with the same stain or color as the finish; i.e., if you have a walnut stained frame, use some of your walnut stain right on the edge near the stained portion of the frame so there is no fresh cut wood showing. (Make sense?)
3. Apply glue to your miter.
4. Put in a miter clamp (good reminder is long side on the left, short side on the right, that way you always get things glued in the right order.).
5. With a hand drill, pre-drill a nail hole using a nail a bit smaller than the one you are going to use. This prevents any splitting. The nail you drive in would best be ring-shank nails. You can either use a colored nail and just drive it in flush, or set the nail and use a wax filler of a color that matches your finish. You may need to mix a couple different waxes to mix to your desired color. For your size molding, one nail in the long side and one nail in the short side will easily hold things.
6. Let it set for an hour or more.
7. Take it out.
8. Repeat with the other two sides.
9. Now, you have two L shapes. Do the same thing again and glue and nail the 3rd corner. Then the last corner.
This is/was the "professional" way of custom framing until V-nails and other fastners came along.
I still have my dad's Stanley 100 miter saw and Stanley 400 miter clamps that were made specially for picture framing. And, I still use them on occasion for special projects.
Since there is not a lot of motion or movement to a picture frame, you don't have to worry about these falling apart.
Alan - planesaw
try epoxy and no fastners or nails;works fine using 2 corner clamps,make 2 els (l) let set for 15-20 mins,assemble els with clamps into finished frame and bam....finished in no time.ps ewpoxy especially good for oily woods
You got some really great sugestions, especially from the guy with old Stanley clamps and sawing jig. But I'm surprised that no one suggested dowling. You have to have some sort of miter clamp though, like the Stanley so's you can get at the side of the joint after it is clamped tightly. Once you have glued the miter edge and clamped it up, drill a hole for an appropriate sized dowl, glue it and drive it in. You can dowl the joint from both sides by angling the hole up on one side and down on the other so the dowels don't intersect. After the glue sets, cut off the ends of the dowls flush and sand them. The end grain of the dowel stains a bit darker, but it's really not noticeable since you usually only look at the front of the frame. Been doing this for years and it makes a very strong joint. Oh, and PS. Drill snug holes for the dowles and besure to score a groove in the side of the dowel to allow excess glue to escape as you drive it in. If you don't, it acts like a hydrolic ram and it will open up your beautifully fitted miter joint even with the best of miter clamps.
Lataxe,
You are absolutely correct that you don't need multi-thousand dollars to make a few picture frames. But, when you make picture frames for a living, you can't afford to take an hour to make six.
My wife makes about 25 to 30 an hour with her equipment. That means she cuts all 4 sides and joins a frame in about 2 minutes. She travels to both craft and art shows about 6 to 9 months a year on weekends. When she is home several days each week, she needs to make whatever she needs for the next show quickly.
Like everything else in woodworking, there are about as many ways to do something with wood as there are people doing it. That is one of the great things about sharing the many ways things are done, from the pros to the beginner, from the simple to the complex, from hand tools to power tools, from garage made to the professional shop.
Enjoy!
Alan - planesaw
Can someone post a picture or contact info on "V" nails for frames. I don't now what they are.
Thanks,
Don
Don,
I can post pics if you can wait a day whilst I take them. (Can't log on until the evenings).
Lataxe.
Following link will give you some info and how to order to do them by hand.
This is not where we order v-nails so I don't know anything the company or the v-nails they sell. (We order in large quantity for a large stationary machine my wife has.) My guess is this link will give you a good bit of info for making the occasional frame.
http://www.clubframeco.com/picture_frame_joining_tools.html
Alan - planesaw
Don,
Pics as promised.
The bit of metal (next to the 2 clips of nails) is an old metal working vice jaw. It's good for pushing in V-nails as the diamond etching stops it slipping off the nails.
The Pushmaster tool is a luxury, albeit a convenient one, for pushing in V-nails. It's magnetic end holds the nail then disappears up the Pushmaster barrel as the nail is pushed into the frame.
You can use a pushmaster "freehand" without the lever thingy. The nails are extremely thin and sharp, so they go in easily and don't split the wood unless you go within a couple of millimetres of an edge.
The hammer shown in good because you can use the oblong end to tap V-nails in difficult spots like the inside corner of the frame's rabbet.
Lataxe,
Thank you for the time and trouble you took to educate me. I never knew this technology existed. I am so impressed. Strong miter joints allow a guy to avoid the cost of matched set rail/stile router bit cutters. I think the final result/asethithics of a miter is more "formal" than the butt joint look of mortise and tenon and/or matched profile/cope sets for door frames.
Thank you again for the pics and info.
Don
Lee Valley has this version of fastener.http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=52289&cat=1,43293
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