I purchased some reclaimed timbers. 8”x14” Some type of eastern white pine. Some doug fir.
<!—-><!—-> <!—->
The surface of the east white pines are a bit burnt. Not a lot just a bit and it quickly pressured washed off. Since I was going to saw off an 1” or 2” on each side I figured it would be ok.
<!—-> <!—->
The surface of the wood does not look like it’s treated with Creosote nor did they smell at all. So I did not give it a second thought. However once I started sawing them I noticed a smell like Creosote or turpentine? The guy I was sawing with said he thought they smelled like utility poles as well…. <!—-><!—->
<!—-> <!—->
I called the guy I got them from and he said what I was smelling was pine pitch. He said bring back what I did not want and he would replace them with something else.<!—-> <!—->
<!—-> <!—->
I have dealt with him quite a bit and he has always been honest and I trust his judgment but I’m not sure he is correct? The smell does seem to fade but I’m not really comfortable giving these to somebody for fireplace mantels or using in my own home. <!—-><!—->
<!—-> <!—->
I know some southern long leaf pines produce turpentine? I think right? I’m just not sure what to do?<!—-> <!—->
<!—-> <!—->
Anybody experienced something like this or what?
<!—-> <!—->
Replies
I found this from Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creosote
It appears that coal tar was used to preserve the wood in utility poles, etc., commonly called creosote. After reading the Health effects section I came away feeling that the jury is still out regarding coal tar as a possible carcinogen.
Regards,
Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
I 2 have read that wiki; I have also read extensively about creosote. I think as long as you use common sense when dealing with it you’re probably ok.<!----><!----><!---->
However, I would never ever use it inside my home. It’s fine for outside projects and don’t eat it.
If the surface looks uncontaminated, I'd be very surprised if there was creosote in the lumber. I have extensive, excrutiating, experience with creosote-treated RR ties from building fences for horses. It's difficult to imagine creosote on the inside without evidence on the outside. And the stuff smells forever.
As always, correct me if I'm wrong..... ;-)
The short timber in the middle on the second row up.
You can see that discolored area on the right side and down the monster check in the middle;
It smells like creosote to me but it seems to dissipate quickly and I can’t smell it after 24 hours have passed. This is also consistent with what I have experienced with re-sawn utility poles. The smell goes away after days of being sawn.
I know what you mean about bridge timbers and the sort. They stink forever.
What do you think? Do the timbers look like they might be treated 2 you o girl of the forest?
Well, now, those are interesting. When you said "The surface of the east white pines are a bit burnt. Not a lot just a bit..." I imagined something different. What stands out to my eye is the fact that in most places where there is a check, the darkness appears to follow it into the wood. And look at that middle timber on the bottom -- where the knot is, circled with grey. Hmmmm.
In the absence of Jon Arno, may he rest in peace, who we need in this thread is Bob Smalser. I haven't seen him at Knots for over a year, but I'll drop him a line at WWA and see if he'll stop by and take a look.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
hi jamie,
perhaps we're wondering the same thing. the "creosote" was applied to the surface and crept into the cracks. it isn't pressure treated.
eef
If it is creosote, and I'm not convinced yet, they sure didn't let the beams soak for very long. Hardly seems enough to do any good.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Creosote, The heat generated while sawing brings out the stink. I have a new utility pole outside of my shop, when the temps go up and the sun beats on it the stink comes out..... I can smell it inside my shop, after a while the smell dissipates.
Why don't you just ask the guy where he found them?
Burnt wood has a smell all it own, looks like timbers from an old rail road trestle to me.
Tom
Edited 11/12/2009 9:39 pm ET by gofigure57
They came from under the 35w Bridge that collasped in Minneapolis. It was some type of warehouse / storage structure. After the brige collasped they needed to clean it up before the new bridge could be constructed.
<!----><!----> <!---->
You can’t really tell from the picture but all of the beams except for the long(slighly chared) one and the 2 doug fir(upper right) and middle left. Were painted with white paint. The paint also pressure washed off without 2 much difficulty. I did not test it for lead; I probably should have.
<!----> <!---->
I’m going to take a sample to emsl for testing; they said they can... then I'll know for sure.
<!----> <!---->
EPA SW-846 8270C BNA method for solid samples. This method targets Base Neutral and Acid Extractable analytes which include both PAHs and substituted Phenols. Since Creosotes contain PAHs and substituted Phenols in high percentages, the methods used are presumed to indicate the potential presence of Creosotes if PAHs and Phenols are found. The results reported are for the individual concentrations of the PAH and Phenol compounds found, not as Creosote. In addition, we can also provide a GC fingerprint analysis by EPA SW-846 Method 8015B, in which the sample chromatogram is compared to a known Creosote standard and provide an estimated concentration
If the surface looks uncontaminated, I'd be surprised.......
Agreed. Creosote leaves a lasting impression on the surface in color, in the nose and on the skin in the form of burns as you already know.
In another life I worked as a dockbuilderdiver in heavy marine construction. Chain saws and broad axes were our wood working tools. On those nice hot days not only would the saw dust burn you but the fumes would too. I can still see those fumes rising from the piles and timbers. Nasty, nasty stuff. Having to unload a material barge full of sixty foot piles saturated in creosote always made my day.
All the person asking has to do is get near a dock that has creosote piles on a warm day and sniff the air. Nothing else smells like it. Turpentine may be strong but that along with pine pitch is sweet by comparison.
As I recall the company I worked for stopped using creosote timbers because of the carcinogen concerns. Then we worked with the treated type with an arsenic component.
Out of the frying pan and into the fire. What fun.
Peter
"In another life ...." Oh, those were the days, eh? I miss the days when I could lift a 65 lb. sack and buck 135 lb bales of hay. Interesting point about the fumes -- my stable was in the Sacramento Valley, and I remember in the dead heat of summer, especially the one when we had a string of days over 100*, the aroma just walking by the fences. Phew!
My worst experience, though, was splashing a tiny drop of it (fresh liquid) into my eye, wearing contact lenses no less. Gave me a fright.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
The eyes took a beating with that stuff. No matter what type of glasses I wore, the wind on the water always had a special way of bypassing them and depositing the dust from chain saws. The fun began when you shook off the creosote saturated gloves and tried to find a reasonably clean finger to get it out. At times flushing your eyes at night became mandatory.
It's been over twenty years since I did that type of work and there are still days I wake up in the morning thinking " I'm not out there anymore"
Much happier now to be sure.
Creosote will generally stain the wood dark brown. I commonly run into aromatic pine timbers while doing renovation. When you cut or drill into them, they smell just like somebody just spilled the tirps. Kinda nice, actually.
Mike Hennessy
Pittsburgh, PA
Everything fits, until you put glue on it.
so are you saying turp occurs naturally in southern long leaf? when you cut it it smells like turp?<!----><!----><!---->
because I think that is what I'm experiencing.<!----><!---->
Yep. That's where it comes from -- pine trees.
"Turpentine (also called spirit of turpentine, oil of turpentine, wood turpentine, gum turpentine, and white spirit) is a fluid obtained by the distillation of resin obtained from trees, mainly pine trees." WikipediaMike HennessyPittsburgh, PAEverything fits, until you put glue on it.
so if you put a flame by the wood after being cut will it flame up?
Depends on how big the flame is. Last I checked, wood will burn! ;-)
But the resin has to be distilled to render turpenine.Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PAEverything fits, until you put glue on it.
hey watch this! boom!
I might try it. it seems like it should burn without much effort.<!----><!----><!---->
When I was a kid my grandfather taught me how to collect pine pitch and cook it down with beeswax; put it on a stick and make a torch. He was a cool guy. <!----><!---->
<!----> old time teekee torch. only free.<!---->
I have no idea what you have but can say that most any kind of old pine I've ever opened up has a funky smell. In general not just old growth or any specific species either, 20 year old SYP framing lumber in the attic even.
The first house I bought (1987) was built in the 50's, prior to plywood apparently, as the entire roof decking was tongue-and-groove 1x6. One day I decided to move a couple TV cables around, went up to the attic with my handy drill and a 1/4" spade bit. I burned up 3 spade bits trying to get through two layers of 30-year-old 2x4 pine, just to have TV in the bedroom. Even after 30 years it still smelled like a fresh-cut Christmas tree.
Not much experience with creosote, other than pulling old dock pilings out of the water after hurricanes or too many barnacles necessitated a new dock at my dad's place. Growing up in northwest Florida, there were tons of turpentine farms here back in the early 1900's all the way up to the 60's and 70's. Back then you couldn't sell the land for a nickel an acre - "who wants to live on a turpentine farm with all those mosquitos?"
Now, there are million-dollar homes on the bay everywhere. Before they got developed, you could even walk around out in the woods and find abandoned turpentine pots - clay or later tin pots nailed to the tree to collect the sap (after the bark was slashed, reportedly the reason behind the name "slash pine")
I have to second (or third) some of the other comments here. My limited experience with sawing through creosote-soaked timbers I seem to remember the creosote sinking in a LOT deeper.
This forum post is now archived. Commenting has been disabled