Pioneer Bandsaws, opinions/comments?
Abridge
| Posted in Power Tools and Machinery on
Greetings all, new to the forums.
I am looking to purchase a skookum 14″+ bandsaw, but am extremely limited in my access to suppliers living in northern British Columbia. The Delta X series are easy to get, but that is about all.
While searching, I found the Pioneer 16” Bandsaw at House of Tools in Vancouver. It is the same price as the Delta but comes with much greater resaw capacity, 2 hp motor, fence etc…
However, I can find no reviews anywhere of this manafacturer. I feel a little nervous going for it without any direct feedback from users. Any thoughts or experience with these tools?
Regards, Aaron
Replies
I usually go to the H of T website when I want a good laugh at their prices. They seem to have gone in for Pioneer in a big way, and most of the products are reminiscent of Samona, fairly cheap generic Asian stuff (I've had one or two Samona products that worked very well).
Pioneer has its own website under Pioneer Supply International in Oregon. They seem to be importers, though they don't say so. They claim to have 60 years experience, but then so have I. I've never actually seen any of their machines.
Jim
Digging into their website I found this:
Quality of Pioneer Supply International brand name machinery (Pioneer & Force)In many cases our machines are built by the same manufacturers the name brand companies use. There is a wide range of machinery made in China. While many machines may look alike, some offer better quality than others do. With over 100 different manufacturers in China, you need a distributor who knows how to pick the right ones. Pioneer Supply International has over 60 years of experience importing wood and metalworking machinery. We either co-design or spec our machines with the manufacturers to ensure the quality always meets our high standards. We have full time staff overseas and constantly travel to the factories to ensure that our standards are being met.
Until a few years ago H of T sold a brand of their own (Canwood??) which Pioneer seems to have replaced. I wonder if they're the same outfit with a new name? That might explain the 60 years.
H of T is their only Canadian dealer. In the US the vast majority of dealers are branches of Western Tool Supply, which refers Canadians to H of T. There's nothing necessarily wrong with that, if the machines are OK -- makes them a bit like Busy Bee / Craftex. I've never seen any of the machines under either name, but H of T isn't big in S.W. Ontario.
The spiel about controlling quality in China is eerily reminiscent of what Delta said when they moved production there. Yeah, right. Steel City I believe owns the facility that makes their own machines, and still has QC issues. I buy SC because their customer support makes up for that. If you're far from a population centre, CS is going to be hard to find. If you have a local dealer it might be better to buy something you know he can service. Sometimes dealers can order name brands which they don't advertise, if you ask. Good luck,
Jim
I could be mistaken but I think Pioneer is the house brand of Western Tool Supply headquartered in Albany, Oregon. Western Tool is a reputable company that sells all brands of tools.
Your not mistaken as to house brand, but the level of "all brands" has significantly dropped. A lot of DeWalt, Pioneer, Stanley. Some higher end like Stabila, a little Bosch, Whiteside, Greenlee and some higher end laser stuff, but mostly run of the mill, gearing toward more house brand, more profit. BB
Hmm...well, I have found a nearish (400km) supplier of General. So, now I am seriously looking at the General International 90-240 M1 - 17" WOOD CUTTING BANDSAW or the General International 90-125 M1 - 14" WOOD CUTTING BANDSAW. Any comments on a the General International 17"? It is only 200$ more than a Delta 14" X series.
400km? Just a walk in the park. 8 hours on a good day ;^)
I haven't used the GI. My bandsaw is a Delta which I've had about 8 years. It's underpowered with poor dust collection but it's been trouble-free otherwise. I bought it from a very good local dealer, but even so it took 3 months for a (very expensive) riser kit to be sent up from the US -- this at a time when Delta had a Canadian branch. The service locally for Dewalt, which now handles Delta, is equally bad. General has a better reputation for service, but I've never had to use it.
You might want to post on the Canadian Woodworking forum. There are a lot of General owners there, and you might even find someone in your area.
Cheers, Jim
Don't know if you pulled the string on buying the GI 90-240 M1, but in any case you migh be interested in this;
http://forum.canadianwoodworking.com/showthread.php?t=23253
The poster won third prize in the recent FWW competition. As you can see he has mounted the machine on a General mobile base.
Cheers, Jim
Thanks for that tidbit, I have in fact ordered the GI 90-240 M1, as well as their 6" deluxer jointer. Ordered 2 GI mobile bases through Sears.ca, as they had the cheapest price!
Now I am implementing a number of workstation and storage customizations so I have room for these machines. Hats of to FWW as I am using a hybrid of their various articles for all the shop improvements.
A friend of mine has a Pioneer jointer, 15" (16" ?) planer and their 3HP cabinet saw. He's pretty happy with them, I don't have any Pioneer stuff myself but that may change in the future. From everyone I've talked to the quality of Pioneer is better than Busy Bee/Craftex, but I haven't used Craftex other than my dust collector.
If you're looking at General (I love their stuff!) you may want to consider Steel City also. I have the SC 14" bandsaw and love it--rare to get 1.5 HP in a 14" saw. Well made, little adjustment needed, works great with the 6" extension. My 2 cents, hope you enjoy whichever you choose!
Peter
Thanks everyone, I will check into the Canadian forum.
HofT lists the GI 17" at 1500$, which is only 200$ more than the Delta 14" x series. Gets you a 2hp motor, two dust collection ports, way bigger table, fence, 11" resaw (without riser) etc., so seems much better value.
The MSRP for the 90-240 MI is $2100, but General has it on the summer sales flyer at $1459 -- you should be able to get it at that price from any authorized dealer -- there's a list at the General website. The features on it are quite impressive for the price.
Jim
Thanks, yes, I just talked to my closest distributor. The sale is good for 30 days. Looks like the best option, and a lifetime investment.
I have a very small shop, how well will such a beast behave on a mobile base?
Due to size constraints, I only have a Bosch contractor table saw (not knocking it, but low on power for the big planks), so this bandsaw will provide the meat for the real woodworking projects (all my hardwood is local roughsawn birch and alder).
I imagine they don't recommend putting it on a mobile base, for liability reasons. It's 400 lbs and tall, and could do serious damage if it tipped. My shop's only 20' x 10', so everythings on wheels, including a 500 lb TS, but that has a low centre of gravity. My BS is around 200 lbs and moves around easily, but the base is splayed out for stability. My floor drill press is on wheels too, and they're notoriously unstable, but I've not had a problem. Could you stand it midway in your shop against a wall? You really only need one side clear to work on. and the footprint's only about 27" x 18. Maybe someone who owns a similar model can chime in.
Jim
I have 12x16' of space. I'll think about the one wall option. It would mean moving the workbench away from the window but might be workable. I emailed General after posting, and they said "Sure, our band saw model 90-240 fit on our mobile base model # 50-025".
Perhaps whether it will fit and whether it is stable are two different things?
Hey, if they said it you've got them on record! I'd use a mobile base because I absolutely have to , and just be careful. There's always General's hoverpad, but for that you need air supply, a smooth floor, and a spare $300. I have a General base under my BS and it works well there because the short footprint means that you double up on the angle-iron and get extra-strength. Unfortunately there's a lot of assembly required c.f. the Delta type base.
Jim
if it is at all possible, stay away from house of tools. their prices are ridiculous.
Any suggestions for other mail order tool companies in Canada? I mostly mean power tools, as Lee Valley does most of my hand tools.
i didn't realize you were having it shipped. I suppose that really limits where you can shop.
I am 1200km from the nearest HoT or Lee Valley, some tools can be found at closer hardware or big boxes, but no hi end machines (small power tools are not problem) or hi end hand tools.
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