Hi Forest Girl,
Since your a fan of Lee Valley tools I thought I’d address this question to you. I was talking to my friend about the various types of clamps available.. I showed him the ones from the Lee Valley website. I was thinking about ordering the Pony pipe clamps.
He says he prefers to use Quick Grip Clamps. Apparently he uses them all the time at work and prefers them over the pipe clamps. Says he has no use for pipe clamps. He also mentioned that they were useless for glueing panels together.
Would you agree or disagree?
Wanda
Replies
Hello wanda, I use pipe clamps all of the time for gluing up panels, I can't afford the good K-bodys.... I don't have any problems and have been using them for years. I do have a couple of the quick grip clamps but don't use them for panel glueups, I can't seem to get enough pressure to pull the joints together as I would like. But all of my glue joints are done with a tablesaw with a Forrest blade or a hand plane, no budjet for a jointer yet....
I guess if you had perfect joints the quick grip would work, but if they are even a little off you won't get the pressure to pull it together.
My two cents.
Mike
Wanda: Sorry IM not FG.. But I will take a shot at your queston.. I Disagree with your little friend.. Pipe clamps are indeed verry helpfull for gluing up panels,plz don't get me wrong the newer Quickie clamps are nice but I would like your friend or anyone else to show me a fully equiped workshop with out pipe clamps..
ToolDoc
Proud Member of the Delta & Klein Tradesman Club & Milwaukee HD Club & Knots Bad Boys & Girls Club..
A Non ~ Member of the Knots Bandsaw Guru Club..
OK come on over, a one man fully equiped professional shop without one single pipe clamp. I have quick grips, bar clamps , and a panel clamp system but no pipe clamps. We won't get into the issue that here pipe clamps don't exist because if they did I probably would have at least a few because they would seem to be cheap and efficient.Granted the Italian made bar clamps that I use at a 2 meter length cost about what one of your bar clamps cost.
Philip
Philip: Bar clamps VS pipe clamps = What ever your comfortable & works for you is A OK in my books..<G>..Because both will work in a shop..Pipe clamps are more prevelent in most shops cause there cheap & readly avaiable..
ToolDocProud Member of the Delta & Klein Tradesman Club & Milwaukee HD Club & Knots Bad Boys & Girls Club..
A Non ~ Member of the Knots Bandsaw Guru Club..
I would disagree with his specific example of gluing up panels. The two types of clamps you'll see the most in illustrations of panel glue-ups are pipe clamps and Bessey K-Body clamps.
Quick-Grip clamps are wonderful, no doubt about it, but their main drawback is that they don't develop the amount of clamping pressure that pipe clamps and square-body clamps do. I also have reservations about their ability to maintain 90-degrees when under pressure.
For smaller panels, Quick-Grips would probably work fine. But for anything over a couple feet wide, I'd use pipe clamps (if Bessey K's were out of the budget). When gluing up wide panels, you need the greater pressure of the pipe clamps and the rigidity of the pipe over the rectangular body of the Quick-Grips.
The other nice thing about pipe clamps is their ability to be as long as you need them to be! Granted, they're a little awkward, but useful when the expensive Bessey's aren't an option.
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
PS: Hopefully, you realize that the Pony stuff isn't a Lee Valley product. It is another company and widely available at big-box stores and most woodworking outlets. You might be able to find them cheaper elsewhere. There are 1/2" and 3/4" models available.
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Hi Wanda
Hopefully, F-G will give you the definitive answer. But I think the big advantage of pipe clamps, is that you can make them any size you need - just add more pipe. That is, if you need a clamp 10 feet long, you can't afford a K-body or quick grip that long, even if they made them. But you can afford 10' of black pipe and use your Pony clamps. Not the perfect clamping system, but certainly versatile.
Stan
(EDIT) I must have been writing while the other posts came in, so I'm echoing about the length. BTW, I routinely see Pony clamps cheap at the local Harbor Freight store, and bought some at Big Lots for about $4 each.
Edited 10/1/2003 12:42:26 PM ET by stantheman
Hey Wanda,
I'm not FG either.
I gotta agree with Mike, I have used (and like) Quick Grip clamps for years, I have 20 of them, but I don't think they have the mussle of pipe's, bar's or K Body's. When I do panel or project glue ups I start with Quick Grips to get the fast easy hold then I back them up or replace them with pipe clamps or K Body's.
Bought my first set of (4) 31" K Body's several months ago, love them, wanted them for years, but they are pricey. 4 more at 24" and I'll be happy, for awhile.
I'm not knocking Pony, I don't have any, but I am looking to add to my pipe clamp collection with the new Rockler's. I like the built in feet design.
Enjoy, Roy
Edit: Who typed that?, and have you ever seen such quick posts, Wow.
Edited 10/1/2003 12:53:46 PM ET by ROY_INMD
Da*n, you guys and gals are quick. I started my post with only three posted. If finished 8th. Ya'll could type a novel b-4 I could type a post. ha..ha..
Wanda: To support what all have said about length, I just finished a work-bench (almost) that I had to tie bar clamps into 9 foot lenghts. I did a 50' custom parts counter for my work back in Jan. that required 20' clamps to tie 10' sections together.
Got to get back to the shop. Opps, I'm a hobbiest. Have to wait to the week-end! (Maybe I'll just slip down and nobody will notice) he..he..
sarge..jt
Sarge,
I didn't know it was a race. I was in the garage....errrr shop cutting wood for some wainscotting.
Wanda,
Quick clamps are great but I wouldn't use them for panel glue ups. They deflect to easily. Jorganson pipe clamps are inexpensive. Especially if you can get old pipe. Rockler just came uot with their own version and a friend bought some. They seem to work really well. They are about the same price.
I use Stabil parallel clamps and a bunch of old T-bar clamps mostly, but I do pull out the pipe clamps. They are really handy.
Last again.
Len
Len
It's not a race, probably just a co-incidence. See FG's post as to what happened. I typed for about 5 minutes when there were 3 post. When it entered there were 9 or 10. I have never seen that happen before. Maybe too much Jack Daniels in the morning. ha..ha..
You mentioned the Rockler clamps. I bought 4 sets to use on longer pipe. The feet they have added are clever. It gives them more stability and you have less chance of roll-over in the set-up. That's why I like the Jorgy Cabinet-Masters. They just sit flat on the table un-assisted. You take the work to them instead of fiddling to get them on the work. I did have one that the spring-tension release is a bit sticky to get loose. Other than that, excellent.
Regards...
sarge..jt
Just got the new Rockler flyer, and noticed that they're selling retrofit feet ("retrofeet" tee hee) Sure-Foot conversion pads that "convert all your old pipe clamps to the same height as our exclusive Sure-Foot." $5.99 per pair.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
So glad to see that none of you was tempted to pose as FG, ROFL!! And.....I'm glad my position was supported by those with more experience. I've written to sysop about the delay in replies getting posted to the forum -- it's been going on for several weeks, and I expect that's what led to some of us seeing 2 or 3 posts before us that we didn't even know were there before.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
wanda
Pipe clamps. I have about 30 Quik-Clamps of various sizes and they are not used to glue panels. Not enough pressure in most cases. Also, you might take a machinist square and check the inside jaws of a Quik-Clamp. If you find one that is 90* degrees to the bar, let me know where you purchased it. I will get some there.
Quiks are great in the correct place. Especially if you work alone. You can get enough pressure on small glue-ups, but I would use them only after I lock the ends of the glue-up with a Cabinet or pipe clamp. I use them sometimes on panels after the main portion is already situated in Jorgy Cabinet-Masters or pipe clamps.
But I'm just a hobbiest, so dis-regard everything I just said. ha..ha..
sarge..jt
Wanda, I'm not Forest Lady either, but I do have pipe clamps They are strong and reliable and you can use them to spread as well as clamp.
Also to prevent cupping of multiple board glueups, (As in butcher blocks) reverse a few clamps to the opposite side to 'Stabilize'the 'Bow'. Stein.
Every post so far is right! The answer: You need a number of different types of clamps for different jobs. Long ones, short ones, quick ones, cheap and plentiful ones. I love quick grips for most work. I use pipes for panels and would use K bodies if not for the price difference - I'd rather spend my money getting a different capability!
A stable might include:
A few pretty long clamps. Pipe clamps with several medium and long pipes for each kit are good for panels and other long dimensions. Long K bodies look good too.
Lots of quick grip types for most low to medium pressure clamping.
A couple of quality steel bar clamps (about 12 - 18 inches) for high pressure.
Various "C" clamps. 2" to 6".
Some spring clamps - not so important, but cheap.
Deep throat C clamps.
A couple of band clamps. My canoe straps work well.
Edge banding clamps (3 way clamps). Useful, but not essential.
I'm often asked what to get a woodworker for christmas. My answer, if you don't know what he wants, get clamps! Does anyone here have too many clamps?
In addition to what all the other posters have said I want to add that I often use quick grip type clamps in panel glue-ups. I use pipe clamps and or the two sided bar calmps to squeeze the panels together but I like the quick grips to align the ends of the boards ( sometimes I also use large woodscrew clamps attached sidewise to do this).
I mostly have and use pipe clamps, due to cost.
A few years ago I bought some made by vicegrip that are much more versital. Forget what they're called, but neither end requires a threaded connection so you can position them anywhere along the pipe that is convienent. It often works better to center them on the pipe so things are more balanced or you don't have a big length of pipe in your way. It's also nice to be able to flip the jaws around and use them as a spreader. I think I use them this way almost as often as I do as a clamp. Plus they came with rubber jaw covers that don't fall off.
I think they cost about $15 each, but well worth it.
Just my 2 cents, but if you're gonna have pipe clamps, get a couple of these too.
I think your pipe clamps from Vise-Grip are called Powerpress. They look cool, but I already had "enough" pipe clamps when they came out, and spent my dough on a dozen Jorgensen I-bar clamps for a gluing table. They can be set into notches in two beams so they don't roll over when big wood is roughly laid into the table, and they are really powerful and straight under reasonable loads. The table is really only two oak beams with notches at 11" centers that can be laid across two sawhorses over a sheet of plastic to catch drips. Takes no space when stored, just two ten-foot by 6/4 by 6" boards.
I'll add my voice to the chorus that say Quick-Grips are great, but too weak for larger glue-ups. The pipe clamp is a great invention. If there was a Nobel Prize in woodworking....
Bill
Wanda,
I agree with either pipe clamps or bar clamps or the K-Bodies. With all of them, and especially those with lighter bars, you will get bending of the pipe or bar as you apply pressure. If your stock is resting on the pipe/bar, this will force the center of the panel to rise. David Charlesworh addresses this issue, and recommends that you take some straight stock, about 1/2" taller than the pipe or bar comes above the benchtop, Orient them cross grain, and put packing tape on the tops (to avoid any glue sticking to them). Put your clamps between the risers, and then lay your stock across the risers. This way, when you cinch the clamps up, if the edges ate a true 90 degress, the panel will stay flat. And, if you get slippage between the boards, which always happens since the wet glue is a lubricant, take two strong and straight boards, with packing tape on the business edge, and clamp then across the baords to pull them into alignment. With this system you should not have too much trouble with a good glue-up.
Alan
My favorites are K-bodies and the new PC's from Gross-Stabil. I have about 12 K-Bodies which are the first ones I grab. I have about the same amount of the lightweight Bessy bar clamps and they don't see that much use. A couple of years ago I bought a s h i t load of short pipe clamps from a guy that was getting out of the skateboard deck business for a buck a piece, probably 30 or so. I bought a bunch of various lenghts of threaded black pipe, the rubber pads, and conduit couplings and have a pretty good arsenal. I have 8 QuickGrips but mostly use them for an extra hand or lightweight glue-ups.
A couple of pipe clamp tips. Go with 3/4" not the 1/2". Use black pipe, they slip on galvanized pipe. Cut 2-3" lenghts of 1" PVC pipe and put two on each clamp. They'll keep the iron pipe from staining the work. Alternate every other clamp top and bottom and use cauls to keep your panels flat. For really critical glue-ups lay spacers across the pipe clamps to bring the center of the workpiece in line with the center of the clamp screw. Pony pipe clamps are probably the cheapest good clamp you can get, I wouldn't skrimp and mess with Harbor Tools. As soon as you can swing it, start working on a collection of K-Bodies. HD sells them for about as good a price as I've seen, even at the shows.John O'Connell - JKO Handcrafted Woodworking
Life is tough. It's tougher if you're stupid - John Wayne
Hey John-
You mention that you use/like PC's from Gross-Stabil. I haven't read to much about these clamps and there distrobution seems to be limited. Are they as good as k body/cabinet master's? They look pretty solid and I've read that the faces are made to take a lot more abuse. I am getting ready to make my first major clamp purchase and want to hear opinions before I buy.
Thanks
I have a fulltime woodworker friend that has actually worn out some of his K-Bodies. He replaced them with the PC2's. They apply more pressure and stay squarer. I used them in his shop a couple of times and didn't notice all that much difference, but I don't use them day in a day out like he does. Mike's Tools http://www.mikestools.com/ sells them. If you look on the page for the PC2's you will see a link to a blurb and picture of one of my friend's worn-out K-Bodies. My friend is frugal and far from a tool or gadget junkie, so I'm sure he wouldn't be buying them unless they were better.John O'Connell - JKO Handcrafted Woodworking
Life is tough. It's tougher if you're stupid - John Wayne
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