Replies

1. 
   BobSmalser | Nov 04, 2003 10:16pm | #1

   Your sawyers don't want to do it because it's a tough job with a small band mill....the log has to sawed in half and set on edge or, for pure quartersawn material, quartered and each quarter set on edge....and you'll get fewer BF of narrower stuff with quartersawn, if that's how you are paying them....and your logs are pretty small, although the 26-incher is a candidate.

   Plainsawn shows nicest figure and quartersawn is stronger and shrinks less, stays straighter  and moves less once it's built with...I'd make my first cuts in the log and decide from there after I see the figure.....instruct the sawyer you want one of those logs quartersawn...with maple music wood, where the figure is in the sapwood, I often plainsaw til I run out of figure then quartersaw from there, but my maples are considerably larger logs than your walnut.

   The reason you want some quartersawn for furniture is for looks....study the bookmatched panel door below...if I'd had quartersawn material for those rails and stiles, the bookmatched panel woulda stood out a whole lot more:

   http://pic3.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/2594265/31514203.jpg

   Another alternative is to check locally if anyone has a Lucas mill...the distributor will be glad to tell you:

   http://www.baileys-online.com/

    

   The swing-blade mills like the Lucas can cut "one square edge" quartersawn material thru half the log at a time at the same speed that they flatsaw...a principle advantage of that type of mill.

   
   
   

   
   

   ---

   Edited 11/4/2003 2:47:44 PM ET by Bob

1. 
   fretmaster | Nov 04, 2003 10:38pm | #2

   Thanks for your post.  It also brings up another question:  Should I be concerned about trying to isolate the sapwood from the heartwood?  Is the sapwood of any worth or should I not be concerned with it?

   Thanks,

   Fred

1. 
   BobSmalser | Nov 04, 2003 10:41pm | #3

   Sapwood isn't durable to rot if you've boat decking in mind, otherwise, don't be concerned with it...you can stain it to match as you are making furniture.

   Sapwood is a concern if the logs have been laying on the ground all summer and have Lyctus beetle holes in the sapwood...then cut the sapwood out, although I don't for framing lumber as that species of Lyctus beetle goes away when the lumber dries....and if you ever have to store logs over the summer, either debark them, pond them or run a sprinkler over them continuously.

   Edited 11/4/2003 2:48:44 PM ET by Bob

2. 
   jonsherryl | Nov 05, 2003 12:21am | #4

   Freddie, one of the benefits of walnut is that it is a very stable wood. It has both a moderately low overall (volumetric) shrinkage and its T/R ratio (the differential between its radial and tangential shrinkage) is among the lowest of our major domestic hardwoods.

   What this means is that the stability advantages sought when quartersawing a wood are not as significant in walnut as they would be in some of the less stable species, like sycamore and beech. If you like the linear figure presented in quartersawn walnut, then that's a purely subjective choice.

   Personally, I would have the logs flatsawn to expose the tangential surface as much as possible. Walnut is considered a semi ring-porous species, meaning it has a very attractive and fairly showy figure, but it is more mellow than the high-contrast, abruptly ring-porous woods, like oak and ash. The beauty of walnut's tangential figure is a standard against which other woods are compared and it's certainly not something to avoid.    

1. 
   fretmaster | Nov 05, 2003 12:39am | #5

   Thanks Jon.

   Along this same thread:

   In terms of thickness of cut, do you have any reccomendations?  Should I use a variety of thicknesses?  I plan on building a house full of furniture, as well as possibly a gun stock or two.

   Also, after I get them cut I need to stack and store them.  Currently I have a barn in the Middle TN area.  I was going to stack them in a way that there is air space on both faces of the boards.  Should I invest in a moisture meter to know when I reach Equilibrium Moisture Content?  or is there a good rule of thumb for this species?

   Thanks again all.

   Fred

1. 
   jonsherryl | Nov 05, 2003 01:18am | #7

    >>"Should I invest in a moisture meter to know when I reach Equilibrium Moisture Content?  or is there a good rule of thumb for this species?"<<

   Personally, I think a moisture meter is a shop decoration and I wouldn't waste the shelf space storing one...And when it comes to airdrying wood, there's one universal rule of thumb for all species: No matter how long you season it, it won't get too dry.

   The often quoted rule of thumb is that lumber should be dried a year for each inch of thickness...but in reality, depending upon species and drying conditions, it can take anywhere from less than 90 days to upwards of a year and a half...and the thicker the wood is the longer it takes. In my younger, more axious years, I used to fret about this, taking periodic samples out of the pile and ovendrying them to measure weight loss...but now, about all I use the oven for is baked beans.

   Seriously, the wise strategy here is to sticker stack the green wood and forget about it for at least a couple of years. In fact, unless you've got storage limitations, the best approach is to leave it on stickers until you have a pending project in mind for it. Then bring it in to the shop for a month or so to acclimate, before starting the project.

   ---

   As for what thickness to have the logs milled, it depends mostly on what kind of woodworking you do. Back when I was really into general furniture making, I would aim for about 70% to 80% at 4/4 and the balance in thicker stock; 5/4 up through 8/4, depending upon how I normally used a given species. In other words, if I usually used a species for pieces with a lot of spindles or turned legs, I'd lean a little heavier on the 8/4. Since thicker stock takes proportionately longer to dry (and resawing is a pain in the tail) you want to stick with thinner dimensions as much as possible.

   Edited 11/4/2003 5:37:03 PM ET by Jon Arno

2. 
   BobSmalser | Nov 05, 2003 03:10am | #8

   I don't have a moisture meter, Fred...and I mill every day. I agree it's a waste of time unless you have to evaluate somebody else's wood.

   Think in terms of one drying season...not necessarily one year....per inch of thickness.  That means your 4/4 stock...and even your 5/4 stock if you add some air flow late in the season....if you stack it next month will be ready next October for moving inside...walnut is a stable wood and dries pretty well.

   If you are gonna bookmatch panels...a great way to make lovely cabinets from small logs....then consider your most highly-figured wood cut to 5/4 flat...then you have lotsa room to resaw and plane.  Also don't short yourself on 8/4 stock cut from near the pith where the inferior wood is....you may need some turning squares one day.

   Also consider stacking it "in the bolle" as it comes off the log for your more figured logs.  In my example above of bookmatched panels that could have been made to look better thru quartersawn stock, study this figured maple log below.....each 5/4 board deck flatsawn into threes...stile/panel/stile...for kitchen cabinet doors one door per board deck with the figure on each door arranged pleasingly along the row of doors.

   http://pic3.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/2594265/31637395.jpg

   Note that this maple isn't near as stable as your walnut and there's a lot of checking...even with painted ends and under cover.

   Edited 11/4/2003 7:25:14 PM ET by Bob

1. 
   johnhardy | Nov 05, 2003 04:28am | #9

   Freddie,

   Jon Arno has given you some great advice. I'd add that you should seal the ends of the boards ASAP. Not paint, but something made for this. I believe Anchorseal is one such producdt (wax plus other stuff). If you can't find that, both Rockler and Woodcraft sell a green wood sealer in quart bottles. This will be more expensive, but you don't want the ends checking on you.

   John

1. 
   BobSmalser | Nov 05, 2003 04:51am | #10

   Your choice...but 15 logs will need 5 gallons or so for the desirable multiple coats...and that wax-based endseal stuff is spendy to buy and ship.  Baileys on the west coast has it too in small to commercial quantities.  Dissolve some beeswax in linseed and Japan Drier over a double boiler if you insist...at 4 bucks a gallon from Home Depot and your local beekeeper.

   My experience is that it's a waste of money...it may work a tad better than any leftover latex paint, but having also tried it, that's even questionable.

   Checking is dependent on species and what time of year you cut and stack it.....wet seasons are better than dry, obviously. Keep it shaded in any season.

   Here's a stack of No 1 Select DF with the summer-cut boards painted while in the log and the winter-cut boards left unpainted...see any checking?  And DF shrinks a third more than some species.

   http://pic3.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/2594265/31637402.jpg

   Or in these large DF FOHC timbers cut in summer?

   http://pic3.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/2594265/31637369.jpg

3. 
   GHR | Nov 05, 2003 01:13am | #6

   Perhaps the best thing to do is flat cut all of it.

   Make some stock near the heart 8/4 to 16/4 so you can recut it as quarter sawn for frames. Or even resaw it for flat cut panels.

   I will agree that flat cut makes better looking tops and panels.

4. 
   PlaneWood | Nov 05, 2003 05:35am | #11

   Freddie - I have stacked and stickered walnut in November in central Okla and by the next Nov. it was ready to use.   It was all 4/4, 8'6" long.

   Save the worse boards to go on top of the stack and then put about 24 concrete blocks on top.  I covered my stacks with waterproof cloth tarps, staked down at an angle to allow more air circulation.  They were outside.  Get it stacked as soon after being sawn as you can.

   You might even save some of the worst outside wood to rip for stickers.

   Some sawyers will saw for 'quantity' or for 'grade'.  Frankly, I think plain ol slab sawn is best for walnut.  Also the cheapest alternative.

   PlaneWood by Mike_in_Katy (maker of fine sawdust!)
   PlaneWood

5. 
   jonsherryl | Nov 05, 2003 07:58am | #12

   Freddie, you're getting a deluge of advice here and I don't think you could go wrong following any of it...But when it comes to specially formulated, commercial end sealers, I rank them right up their with moisture meters.

   Since one of the primary motives for air drying your own stock (there are of course others, depending upon the species) is to save money, I've always placed a high priority on self sufficiency and using what would otherwise be wasted whenever you can. My favorite end sealer is out-of-date yellow glue (which I virtually always have on hand.) I dilute it about 50-50, or a little thicker, with warm water...just enough to make it easily spreadable with a brush (preferably one that's starting to lose bristles and is otherwise just about worthless).

   ...I suppose the jury is still out on whether this technique is merely just as good as the commercial stuff, or actually better...Personally, I suspect it might be better, especially if the wood has begun to dry a little before you get to it, and has developed some early, minute checks. In this case, the stronger adhesive qualities of glue seems to have an advantage over weaker wax formulas...But don't take this as a license to go ahead and coat wood that shows obvious signs of checking. If that's the case, you should retrim the ends immediately before coating.   

1. 
   fretmaster | Nov 05, 2003 05:58pm | #13

   Thanks all for the great advice.. I wish I had come here first.   I have just recently purchased "Wood and How To Dry It" from FWW and have found a lot of good stuff there as well.

   I hope I can return the favor to some woodworker someday.

   Sincerely,

   Fred

2. 
   fdampier5 | Nov 05, 2003 06:03pm | #14

   One final point,  don't saw your logs at 8 feet,  allow for some end checking and heck evan a little snipe as it's run thru the planner.  Saw at 8 feet 6 inches allowing three inches on either end. 

3. 
   fretmaster | Nov 05, 2003 06:05pm | #15

   Jon,

   So if I do have some logs that show signs of checking... I should go ahead an trim them before I have them sawed?  Then seal the end again before getting it sawed?

   Also, after the sawing takes place should I seal each board end?

   Thanks again.

   Freddie

1. 
   jonsherryl | Nov 05, 2003 08:39pm | #16

   Freddie, it's a little easier to coat the end of a log than individual boards, but unless you're felling the tree yourself, you don't always have that option on a timely basis. The key principle is to get the end grain coated as soon as possible after the wood (either in log or board form) is crosscut to length.

   Over the years, I've probably bought more green lumber from small mills than I've taken logs to the mill for custom sawing...so most of the time I've had to trim the boards to get a fresh cut. Depending upon the species, I haven't always gone to the labor of doing this. The benefit of going to this trouble is that you only have to sacrifice a fraction of an inch off each end, but if you let it go and the checks develop you may lose perhaps as much as six inches off each end with some species (occasionally it can be even worse). However, some woods are very resistant to checking (elm, for example)...so, it depends upon the species and also the value of the stock.

   As you've probably gathered, I pay a great deal of attention to the cost effectiveness of virtually everything I do...and I'm about as lazy as a pet coon when it come to working up a sweat in the shop...I seldom bother with trimming (or sometimes even coating) some of the woods I buy the most, like aspen, which is one of my favorite species for prototype work. It's really cheap here in Michigan.