Replies

1. 
   gdblake | Feb 06, 2010 08:20am | #1

   Wisky:

   Here are two links for you to look at.

   http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=52414&cat=1,41182,52515

   http://www.lie-nielsen.com/catalog.php?sku=7_5

   Might I also suggest you think about picking up a vintage Stanley #7 for the flattening and edge jointing and getting a Lee Valley or Lie Nielsen bevel up jack for the final smoothing.

   gdblake

1. 
   wiskytango | Feb 06, 2010 04:37pm | #3

   Gordon,
   Thanks for the
   Gordon,

   Thanks for the response. Why would you suggest the low Bevel-Up Jointer Plane over say this one? http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=47298&cat=1,41182,48944

   OR would both work just personal preference. Also what would you suggest that i use for the final smoothing once i get it flat with this plane

1. 
   gdblake | Feb 06, 2010 05:24pm | #5

   Wisky:

   Mel gave you misinformation, my first name is not Gordon, it is Gregory. In regards to the plane, my first reply was a direct response to the parameters of your original post. If you are looking for one plane that can handle the job you described the bevel up jointers are it. I find bevel up planes make excellent smoothers. With a couple of extra irons sharpened with steeper microbevels you can have effective cutting angles up to 60 degrees. However, I'm not big on using bevel up planes for initial flattening or rapid stock removal. It is much easier to give the iron of a bevel down plane a strong camber (say a radius of 8 to 12 inches) for the purpose of taking very thick shavings. This is why I suggested a #7 for flattening and the bevel up jack for smoothing. If you are starting out with rough saw boards, Mel is basically correct with his advice. If you are starting with machine trued boards the #7 will get your panel flat and the bevel up jack will do an efficient job of smoothing it. Those two planes can be had for a total cost in line with the funds you have available.

   gdblake

1. 
   wiskytango | Feb 06, 2010 11:33pm | #6

   Thanks that makes more sense now.

2. 
   9619 | Feb 07, 2010 07:49pm | #10

   Gordon,

   I like your style. You got spunk. It is good to see older people with spunk. Too much of it is wasted on the young.

   How did you do your early learning with hand tools? What type of woodwork do you mostly do on the job? Do you do woodwork for fun too? If so, how does it differ from what you do on the job?

   Mel

1. 
   flairwoodworks | Feb 08, 2010 01:20am | #13

   Mel,

   In case you missed it, gdblake said earlier:

   "my first name is not Gordon, it is Gregory."

2. 
   WillGeorge | Feb 08, 2010 02:21am | #15

   MEL Never misses anything!

2. 
   9619 | Feb 06, 2010 09:44am | #2

   Wisky,

   Gordon Blake is an expert on hand tools so it is always good to listen to him. (Besides being an expert, he is a nice guy)

   I am more of an eclectic. I love hand planes. I also love electric tools. I once had a great conversation with a great plane maker, Philip Marcou. It turns out that Philip has and often uses and electric hand plane. I believe he recommended a Makita. Here is a website:

   http://www.toolbarn.com/makita-1912b.html?ref=base

   Don't poo poo an electric hand planer until you actually use one. Hand planing a large slab that is severely out of flat is HARD LONG WORK. If you are romantic about woodworking, you could actually look forward to it, especially if you are about 18 years old and are a world class athelete with a passion for pain.

   Once you use an electric hand plane to get the slab closer to flat, then move to a SERIES of hand planes. Different people recommend different series. Of course, you could start with a nice scrub plane, along with a nice pair of winding sticks.

   NOTE that flattening a large surface is a 'learned skill'. It will take some study and a lot of practice. Learn to use the winding sticks. READ A LOT ABOUT FLATTENING A LARGE SURFACE. There is plenty written about it.

   Charles Schwartz recommends starting with a 5 1/2 (Jack) with a nicely rounded iron, then moving to a jointer (he likes the #8. Me too) Then to a smoother.

   So you can start with either a Jack or a scrub if you don't want to start with an electric. The Jack will take a bigger slice, and get you to a flatter surface because it has a big base. HOWEVER, you have to be a large strong person to take a lot of big shavings. The scrub is narrower and takes a smaller shaving. It is probably preferable for a person who is smaller than Paul Bunyan.

   There is a lot written on flattening large planks. From the tone of your message, I didn't get the feeling you had researched the literature yet. I suggest that you do a bunch of reading before you acquire your next plane.

   Also, One more plane ain't gonna do it. If you are serious (and not everyone is), Then you know you will need at least three planes to tackle the job,

   1) either a properly set up Jack or a scrub

   2) a jointer (#7 or #8 or a nice old woodie)

   3) smoother (I'd go with the LN 4 1/2 for large surfaces). You can get a second frog from LN if you still experience tearout. Gordon Blake recommended a BU for smoothing. I respect his opinion, but it ain't my style. I am a traditionalist. I like the extra heft of a "real" BD smoother.

   Hope I have given you some things to think about. The great thing about Knots is that if you get answers from two differentt people, they surely don't agree. So the mere fact of reading Knots is a GREAT THING. It makes you think for yourself. Which of these alternatives should I take? So how do you decide? I suppose you could write another message and ask others which of the previously recommended approaches to take, or ask if they have others. Of course, then you are even deeper in the mud.

   Do you feel yourself sinking? ha ha ha ha ha. This is a great place. I love it, even with its poorer new format, it is still a great place to get information. I just wish there was a place that could tell you what to do with the information. But then again, when I was in college, I took too many philosophy courses.

   I assume that before long, you will have a whole slew of hand planes. When you get a whole bunch of them, and you have a few years of practice under your belt, why not write again, and let the rest of us know what conclusion you came to. You could entitle your message "Flattening large planks: THE LAST WORD".

   I will look forward to it. Hope you enjoyed my thoughts. I am sitting her looking out the window at about 20" of snow and contemplating going down to the shop and finishing up a nice dovetailed red oak box (all made with hand tools).

   Have fun,

   Mel

1. 
   wiskytango | Feb 06, 2010 04:40pm | #4

   Mel
   thanks for the info, I
   Mel

   thanks for the info, I do love me some power tools so fundamentally i have no problems with the power planer and if i was doing quantity work i would probably go with that, but at this point if it takes me twice as long with a hand plane well then i just dont finnish it as fast.

2. 
   flairwoodworks | Feb 07, 2010 12:37am | #7

   Mel,

   I will make this short.

   I used to surface all my wood by hand. Then I got an 8" jointer and a 13" planer. Now I surface all my stock wider than 13" by hand. I'm tired of that so I'm going to coin up for an electric planer. I'm trying to decide between the 6-3/4" Makita or a little guy about 4" wide. Depending on the quality of the finish, I will probably finish with my new #4 that's nicely tuned (see the polish on the back of the blade?) or a scraper.

   Done.

1. 
   Lataxe | Feb 07, 2010 04:29am | #8

   Chris,

   Why stint yersel with a mere 6 incher with one or three horses? Ye need this one:

   http://www.nmatools.co.uk/productdetails.asp?Product=1093&ZStock=0

   And, naturally, only this will do for the final hand finishing:

   http://www.marcouplanes.co.nz/

   These items are more than $300 however; but probably best possible value over one's lifetime. Mel will blather about reselling LN planes on ebay for the original buying price but in 2034 that Mafell will be worth millions and museum curators will be scouring the planet for them.

   However, Marcou planes will be beyond price as every owner will tend to be buried with theirs, rather like Norse lawds with their best head-loppers.

   Lataxe

1. 
   flairwoodworks | Feb 07, 2010 02:40pm | #9

   Lataxe,
   Well, I don't have
   Lataxe,

   Well, I don't have three phase power, so unfortunately, that will never happen. -Hey! They offer free on-site demos! Maybe I can convince them to demonstrate how quickly their monster can flatten 1000 bdft of lumber!

   I would love a Marcou. My birthday is August 24.

   Hey, I can dream.

3. 
   WillGeorge | Feb 07, 2010 11:01pm | #11

   MEL..HI!

   I agree with your 'Electric' hand planner for large surfaces.

   Last year I did some surfacing of a very large slab of wood for my daughter. A very large and old white oak that fell in a early spring storm.

   I cut most of the tree up with a chain saw and left the trunk where it fell in her backyard. I also had to repair her fence!

   Her hubbie and I jacked up the trunk and put several 8X8 treated timbers (ground rated) under it to raise it out of ground contact.

   I do not have the expensive Makita.. I used my very old Craftsman 20 inch? chain saw to sort of flatten off the top as to make a very large bench. I then fitted my little old Ryobi hand planer ($90.00?) with new blades and then added a 'sled' that fitted onto the body. I attached two long 'runners' to guide the fitted sled. In two days, I had the fence fixed, AND the tree flattened into a bench that will probably last forever. It turned out very flat!

   I also did on the third day, apply MinWax? wood hardener to the exposed ends of that huge log. I will have to go back when it is warm outside to see if it needs more work.. It 'looked' OK out in the snow this very month. My new grandbaby was just Baptized at two years old? Anyway, she got Baptized... I never asked my daughter why she waited so long.

   I have to admit that I used my old Stanely-Bailey number 4 to finish off the work.

   OK, so it was on fresh flallen 'green' wood I had to work with!

   So how is Freddie doing these days? AND do I remember that you saying about a new grand girl baby?

1. 
   9619 | Feb 07, 2010 11:30pm | #12

   WillGeorge,

   Sounds like you had a good experience with an electric planer. Folks don't talk much about them here on Knots. I wonder why they don't.

   Freddy is doing fine. He is now two years old and is acting like a two year old. Ha ha. Second grandkid is Lucy who is about a half a year old and lives in CA. She is doing fine too. I made toy "robots" for both of them and put their photos on the wood faces of the robots. The robots have wood "ball in vice" joints. Simple stuff, but fun. Hope your grand kids are doing fine too.

   Mel

1. 
   WillGeorge | Feb 08, 2010 02:12am | #14

   I guess my old brain is still working!

   ..

   He is now two years old and is acting like a two year old. Ha ha. Second grandkid is Lucy who is about a half a year old and lives in CA. She is doing fine too.

   Sorry about forgetting her name.. Lucy... I will try to remember, but at my age, I get confused at names.. I still can remember faces! I am missing my Grandbabies and thinking of calling my daughter for babysitting them every week for one day so they can be alone together. My daughter is a school teacher and with little children all the time. My Son-In-Law is a Professor that tells be many of his students are like little children!

   I believe him.. He is a very layed back guy.. but VERY serious about teaching others of what he knows...

   Sounds like you had a good experience with an electric planer. Folks don't talk much about them here on Knots. I wonder why they don't...

   I think I have posted in here about using the same 'little' Ryobi 'Lectric' planer on a very large deck I made for my Sister-In-Law... I broke my nose falling off the deck! I went to the ER and back to work in a few hours!

   Sorry to hear about cutting costs at NASA. I have to admit that I think our new President, Barack Obama, is trying his best at a HUGE problem he never started. I, for one, like him ALOT!

   I sure hope the NASA folks still can come up with many GREAT new ideas without going back to the Moon and Mars. I do like our new President, but I think he did 'miss the boat' on cutting funds for NASA.. I would guess many of us common folks do not realize how many jobs outside of NASA depend on it for work.. Many low and high paid jobs! In many places around the USA and probably around all of the the global workforce. I 'think' NASA has never built a rocket? Not sure.. I think all the big METAL was made from NASA specifactions at some local workplace around the world?

   I do realize that most folks that do not have a job, have nothing to do with NASA work.. But they are still trying to get food for the family!

   I have sent my EMAIL to my President on my thoughts about NASA cuts..

   I may have U.S. Marshals showing up in the morning.. I have no guns in my house,, Just a very old dog that will bark if he is awake.. I almost hear as vell as my old dog does.. And I have to poke him to listen to me!

   I think a few dollers outstanding to pay my creditors is ALOT.. I have no idea what a Trillion dollars is? Can you give me some idea about that in.. Light Years.. that I 'think' I can understand somewhat?

3. 
   gdblake | Feb 08, 2010 08:28am | #16

   Chris:

   I bought one of the smaller electric planers years ago to work down rough sawn lumber. I quit using it when I made myself a scrub plane. The scrub plane is just as fast and I have better control over it. Depending on the size of the board, the scrub is followed up with an old Stanley #5 or # 5 1/2 to remove the scallops and finished with a #7. If you have your heart set on an electric planner I would go for the 6 3/4" one vs the smaller planers. Its size should help you get to flat quicker. Don't let Mel bother you, he's only humoring himself. My wife often calls me worse.

   gdblake

1. 
   flairwoodworks | Feb 08, 2010 09:39am | #17

   Gregory,

   Thanks for your input. It means a lot from someone who's already been there. The timbers I'm considering the electric planer for are roughly 2'x4' up to 3'x9'. I have many skids worth in my back yard, all hardwoods.