Maybe this isn’t quite the right topic title, but I wasn’t sure how to list it. I have a fairly nice Bedrock plane (605 1/2) that the previous owner decided to “touch up” with black spray paint. Not the sides or bottom, but the japanned surface as well as the lever cap and the frog. I got the plane for almost nothing, so I have no regrets. Any ideas on how to remove the paint from the plane and still leave as much of the japanning intact as possible? Maybe it isn’t possible. If it were a latex, I think I could get it off. But spray paint, I’m probably out of luck. As a second question, if anyone knows of any good Japanning products to buy, I would be interested. I’ve thought about trying it on some of my junker planes for fun. As always, thanks in advance.
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Replies
??? Collecting, selling or using ???
I only buy tools to USE. I clean them up, tune them up and make them pretty. I use Rustoleum Professional high gloss black. IMHO factory run planes definitely need a tune up to be better users, once that is done there goes the factory original look that the purist collectors desire.
Work Safe, Count to 10 when your done for the day !!
Bruce S.
I buy for fun and for my own collecting. I would rather have a plane with crappy original japanning than one with shiny new paint. Or, if bad enough, I would like to strip it and re-japan it so it was kind of original, although I have never tried japanning. I like that it looks worn, aged, or used. This is a fairly nice plane with no defects in the mouth or body, so I'd like to get the really bad paint job off of it.
In your particular case, I think you are going to have to strip the paint and japanning off and repaint. You have one suggestion for Rustoleum, but many people use high temp engine paint from the local auto store which comes in a nice semi-gloss. Follow the directions exactly or you will ruin the result. When you are done it should look something like this:
Photo posted below
Edited 10/6/2008 9:52 pm ET by Handrubbed
Resized photo of Stanley 605 after refinishing:
Edited 10/6/2008 10:02 pm ET by Handrubbed
You might find this site very interesting.
http://www.woodcentral.com/cgi-bin/readarticle.pl?dir=handtools&file=articles_117.shtmlWork Safe, Count to 10 when your done for the day !!
Bruce S.
While historically japanning is nothing more than black lacquer paint, you can buy the real deal from these people http://www.libertyonthehudson.com/pontypool.html I tried it on a couple of old junkers and it's as close to the real thing as you can get. Just make sure you put on real light coats... real light... Heating up the tool first by setting it out in the sun on a hot day also helps achieve a nice coat.
Edited 10/6/2008 8:56 pm ET by mvflaim
Lacquer thinner will take the paint off and if you're careful, it won't do too much to the japanning. Acetone will do the same but will affect it more.
Google "japanning" and you'll find a list of links with info on the materials and process. It's generally baked on but if you want it to be done authentically, that's what it needs.
ON THE METAL PARTS try some citrus degreaser, Zap is a good one. Home Depot. Full strength. I will bet he did not degrease or etch the metal before painting it and did not prime it so if you look at it sternly it will probably jump off and run away.
If this does not work try some paint stripper. The stuff marked "Marine" will even open up epoxy paint. But if there is some cool original manufacture paint in the lettering etc. it is a goner. The citrus may take it as well. If the stripper just sits there give it a LIGHT scrub with some coarse sand paper and reapply the stripper. Keep it warm but out of the sun and away from open flames unless you like to poison yourself irreparably.
Again I bet the citrus is all you need.
The wood parts I would start by just attempting to rub the paint off with your fingers or a soft plastic scraper. Again I bet the wood parts had oils from his hands and dirt on them and the paint is not fast.
From there you could test the citrus degreaser on a hidden area that has some original finish to find out if the citrus will dissolve the japanning. If ok then try the citrus on the good parts but probably some one else has a better suggestion here.
On painted metal surfaces at work the citrus takes off customer applied paint from factory "baked" paint and does not touch the factory paint. Except for some very old pin striped accents which the citrus slowly dissolves. Rinse in cold water to stop it.
Edited 10/7/2008 1:50 am by roc
That is interesting that the citrus paint remover will clean user-applied paint from the japanning. Regular removers take it all off immediately. I bead blast the cast iron after stripping and before repainting. Don't get me wrong, I don't typically repaint planes. I avoid the ones that have bad japanning and look to repaint only the hard to find ones that are in bad shape and have no collector value.
NO NO I did not say citrus paint remover. I said DEGREASER removes poorly applied rattle can paint.Bead blaster ! Nice! Not your standard issue wood shop item.
Edited 10/7/2008 1:15 pm by roc
Well, hand plane refurbishment is not your usual wood shop activity, either. There are those of us who find it a rewarding diversion from regular woodworking. Most of my woodworking friends could care less about hand tools, no less how they look; but each to his own. I have saved quite a few tools from lesser fates and placed them into caring hands. About that, I do feel a certain satisfaction.
What roc's suggested usually works well. Failing that, you can use methylene-chloride based paint stripper, but you must do it carefully and gradually to avoid taking off the japaning. You want to put a very light coat of it on top of the offending paint, let it set for about 3 minutes, then wipe it off immediately with a mineral-spirits dampened rag. Done carefully, you can usually remove the spray paint without disturbing the japaning too much. After you've gotten the goo off, you can restore the japaning's original shiny surface with automotive clear coat cleaner, which is a very fine abrasive - just rub it lightly with one of the white, non-abrasive "scotch-brite" pads, and follow that with automotive clear coat polish.
Japaning, by the way is not laquer paint, at least on the pre WWII Stanley planes. It's asphaltum thinned with linseed oil, and it's baked on at about 300 degrees F. It's possible to entirely strip a plane and re-japan it, but it's tough to touch-up the existing japaning with the traditional mixture and make it look convincing.
In regards to re-japaning the whole plane, I'd only suggest this if you want to restore the original look of the plane for yourself. Experienced collectors can spot a re-japaning job, and unless it's a really rare model, the refinishing devalues it to the point of being a user plane with no collecting value.
For what it's worth to this conversation, jappaning is not black lacquer paint. It's asphaltum, and is still available today. After applied, the product is baked on, and if you want to really tick your wife off, it's my understanding that it can be done successfully in an oven.
Jeff
>tick your wife off, bake _____ in an oven.Along those lines:When we first started going together my better half pulled into the tool store parking lot one day at my request while we were shopping. Having a low to the ground car she banged the bottom of her car on the entry to the parking lot. Picture an up and over and then down into sort of parking area situation. Well she had broken the cast iron exhaust manifold. After it began to make noise. I pulled it off and showed her what had happened. She was disappointed because now she was going to be out for car repairs/part.The short story is I got an insane gleam in my eyes, vee'd out the crack, turned on the oven, at MY house, heated up the cast iron to about 500 F (jjjyyyaaahhh it didn't smell too good) pulled it out and while it was hot welded up the crack with some nickel stick welding rod.Allot of different expressions crossed her face before we were done but what could she say? It worked great, didn't cost anything and so it was a happy ending for all concerned.
If you choose to go down the re-japanning route, which you were not originally planning to do (but you never know what you find when stripping off paint), then you must remove all vestages of existng finish before re-finishing. There is nothing worse, or avoidable, as a touchd up finish.
I had a lot of success using a mixture of asphaltum and spar varnish - paint it on thinly. Heat it gently in the sun for a couple of hours to dry. Then leave it alone for 2 weeks. By then the finish will be hard. What's better is that this is a true japanning finish, and it looks original, which paint does not.
This was used on my total restoration of a Stanley #51/52 ..
http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolRestorations/Restoring%20a%20Stanley%205152.html
Regards from Perth
Derek
Thank you for all of the replies. If necessary, I'll try re-japanning. For now, I'm hoping to remove the paint on top of the japanning. My goal is to remove the paint and leave the japanning. On another note, I have some older Bedrock lever caps that aren't rusty or pitted, but they have sort of a tarnish to them. Is there a certain hand applied polish that will clean them up nicely? Same with the plane sides. I don't want to polish it to a mirror finish so that it looks altered, I'd just like to restore it some. As always, thanks for all the replies.
Derek- Since thin coats of the japan finish are desired, would it be possible to apply it with an HVLP spray rig? This would require more masking, but that is really rather simple on the planes. Also, what is the purpose of oven baking the tool if the cure times is weeks beyond the application? My last question is the hardest: Is a mediocre japanning job still better than a well-done paint job? The reason I ask this is I have read that the japan finish can be very tricky. The quality of the japanning on the Stanley planes certainly varies dramatically.
I think of japaning as the vintage equivalent of the baked on enamels we have on appliances like washers and dryers. I assume they had paints back then which were decent for metals - I mean the Model T's were painted black with something, right? Stands to reason that Stanley thought the japanning was either more durable or morse cost effective than the paint fo the time.
All that said, I think modern Rustoleum and other high quality spray paints are extremely tough and every bit the match of japaning. I painted my favorite old reclaimed Stanley Jack with some nice heavy duty Rustoleum - dark green - many yearts ago, and it still looks every bit as good as it did the day I painted it despite years of reasonably hard "hobbiest" use.
Derek- Since thin coats of the japan finish are desired, would it be possible to apply it with an HVLP spray rig? This would require more masking, but that is really rather simple on the planes. Also, what is the purpose of oven baking the tool if the cure times is weeks beyond the application? My last question is the hardest: Is a mediocre japanning job still better than a well-done paint job? The reason I ask this is I have read that the japan finish can be very tricky. The quality of the japanning on the Stanley planes certainly varies dramatically.
I learned the hard way that the japanning mix is self levelling and runny. Do one horizontal section only, let it dry to a tacky finish, then turn the body so that you again work on the horizontal, and do some more. Build up the layers. At first it looks too thin. Add more layers until it is a rich black. The time you take will be worth it as the finish is forever.
This formula (asphaltum and spar varnish) will set cold. The problem with many other formula is that they need to be baked. Not only is this smelly, but you need to have the room in an oven. It will require 2 weeks to cure from soft to hard.
Is it better than paint? It depends on whether you want the finish to look like japanning or paint? Paint looks like paint. You will never get it to have the finish, texture, or colour of japanning.
Regards from Perth
Derek
A great explanation and thank you.
>Stanley #51/52Nice work !
Nice tool !
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