Replies

1. 
   desertrat | Jan 14, 2004 03:57am | #1

   I have a little Stanley low-angle and replaced the blade with a Hock, as well as some serious fettling and it now works pretty good.  Still not near as well as my veritas low angle, but passable.

2. 
   RANGERP75R | Jan 14, 2004 06:28pm | #2

   dj

      Put a micrometer on both the iron of the Stanley and Veritas. You can just look and see that the Veritas is thicker. Examine the bed,frogs and hold-downs for flatness. There is a difference in quality that relays to chatter, etc.

      The Stanley is fine for the money (I have one tuned to the max and know it's limits). An excellent buy for $29.95 expecially on soft-woods. But you have just got more plane capable of doing more with the Veritas. A true case of you get what you pay for, well most of the time. ha.. ha...

   Regards...

   sarge..jt

   Proud member of the :  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) 

1. 
   djcolorado | Jan 14, 2004 07:47pm | #3

   I looked up the Hock website, and I will probably try a blade from them. Getting what you pay for is a good point because for the cost of the Stanley and a Hock blade you start to approach the price of a Veritas. Thanks for the suggestions.

2. 
   MarkRoderick | Jan 15, 2004 12:06am | #4

   Not to change the subject, but I've just ordered the Veritas medium shoulder plane. I remain a bit skeptical because of experience with other Veritas tools (some good, some bad), but have high hopes. If this works out maybe I'll consider saving some money in the future and buying Veritas planes rather than expanding my L-N collection.

1. 
   RANGERP75R | Jan 15, 2004 07:41pm | #5

   Mark

      I have the Veritas medium-shoulder. It is the best shoulder plane I have ever held in that blade width. I doubt that you will find anyone that will have too many bad responses. I also have the Veritas #4 1/2. It is excellent IMO.

      At least giving the Veritas a "go" is a very clever move IMO. You may just find out that what you mentioned can possibly be a reality with quite a significant saving. Everyone seems to be locked onto the LN mental plateau without giving the lower priced iron much of a consideration.

   Best of luck with it....

   sarge..jtProud member of the :  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) 

1. 
   MarkRoderick | Jan 17, 2004 05:11am | #8

   I received the Veritas shoulder plane today and all I can say is "Wow." This is a very fine tool indeed. It has a wonderful heft, not at all like some other Veritas tools I have purchased that are made from plastic and feel lightweight and insubstantial. The blade adjustment mechanisms are precise, velvet-smooth, and clever. The knob for adjusting the handle to the preference of the user is also a clever innovation. Last but not least, the blade was perfectly square and sharp out of the box, although I honed it anyway on an 8000 grit waterstone followed by green sharpening compound and spent a few moments slicing tissue-thin shavings with no effort. I don't know whether you noticed, but the back of my blade was slightly recessed in the middle, like a Japanese chisel, making it that much easier to hone.

   If Lie-Neilsen can made a better shoulder plane than this I'd like to see it. In any case, I'm sure the competition between the two of them is going to benefit all of us. I was going to make the L-N #7 my next purchase, but now I wonder. The L-N is $400 so I figure Veritas will probably hit a price point of around $275 to $325.

1. 
   RANGERP75R | Jan 17, 2004 06:42pm | #9

   Mark

      Glad you found the Veritas S/P suitable. It's a nice piece of work. They will be adding some more shoulders in the near future. Very near future, as I was conversing with Rob Lee from Lee Valley a week or so ago.

      I love the fact that the iron is just under .75". You can clean up dadoes in a snap with it. I even clamped down a Tru-Grip and cut a dado with it just for fun. A shoulder plane is a very valuable tool in my shop. It does certain things a power tool just won't.

     Be advised that Veritas doesn't have a #7 or #8. I am also in the market for one an asked Rob L specifically if they planned to introduce one in the future. It is not in the works at the moment, as more variety of shoulder planes and spoke-shaves (spoke-shaves also get my attention) is the current goal.

     They do have a #6 fore at 18" (standard for #6). I have their #4 1/2 and am pleased with how the mouth adjust without having to move the frog forward. I am considering the #6 ($219 or $229 I believe) in lieu of the #7. This is the current raging debate going on in my mind.

     My current train of thought is if the # 6 comes up short with my needs, I might consider a E.C.E. 24" jointer at $219 with the lignum vitae sole to bridge the gap in the future. Still sitting on the fence on this one waiting for a "voice to appear from behind a burning bush" to lead me to the "promised land"! ha.. ha...

      Glad you took the plunge and at least gave the Veritas a chance to prove itself. I don't think you will regret the decision and as Paul Harvey says, "Now you know the rest of the story".  :>)

   Regards from magnolia alley...

   sarge..jtProud member of the :  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) 

2. 
   AlanTurner | Jan 16, 2004 10:54pm | #6

   Mark,

   I have that plane, and think you will be pleased with the quality.  Of course, do not overtighen the iron or you will "flex" the sole, and throw it out of flat.Alan

   http://www.alanturnerfurnituremaker.com

1. 
   MarkRoderick | Jan 16, 2004 11:04pm | #7

   Thanks for the advice.

3. 
   hedgehogtw | Jan 18, 2004 04:52am | #10

   I to have often thought about the difference in the qualities of the steel not only in the blades but also the cast iron in the bodies. 

   I have several Bailey planes which are U.S. made and recently my Dad gave me his Stanley Bailey 4 1/2 and block plane which came from England with us when we moved to Canada in the 60's. He bought it in the early 50's and never used them that much so they are choice.

   The planes feel completely different, I find I get a far keener edge on the English blades even though I sharpen both blades exactly the same way on the same stones at the same time.

   I have tried to set both planes up, so they are as identical as I can get them, yet still the English plane has a different feel to it, somehow smoother and more precise, I can't describe the feeling, however I have had several friends do a sort of blind test with both and they always pick the English model.

   I have often wondered if it could be the difference in the castings, if was one allowed to relax more before it was machined. In the case of the English plane I wonder if the rough casting was  pre-war stock and machined and finished in 1950 or there abouts.

   I also have a Bailey Victor (pre 1900) that I can find little about. Its great feature is the depth adjustment wheel, which is under the blade so when you grip the plane your fore finger naturally wraps the wheel and with just a small motion you can adjust the depth of cut while in the midst of a stroke. If you start to tear by pulling you finger (as on a trigger) it move the blade just a smidgeon and it makes a huge difference in the quality of the cut.

   Although my Dad's tools are the greatest gift, I find it sad in some ways he has given me them now, as he knows he will never use them again, although he is only 80 and still enjoys mucking about in the shop and takes great pride in his workmanship!

   So long from Grand Forks, gtw

1. 
   djcolorado | Jan 19, 2004 08:55am | #11

   Developing "feel" for tools is a step in my woodworking progression that I am just entering even tough I have built about twenty pieces of furniture over about fifteen years.  The availability of great power tools coupled with little free time make it easy to brute force projects instead of finessing them.  Feel is probably what really separates craftsman from the rest of us.  It is really great that you have a set of planes that aren't of the current mass produced variety and even better that you have worked with them enough to understand the differences.  I am just getting there with this experience I have had with my new Veritas compared to my mass production Stanley block plane and another couple experiences recently regarding card scrapers and chisles.