Replies

1. 
   Kell | Jan 30, 2003 11:01pm | #1

   If you're sanding a 1x8 with 220 grit paper on a ROS for 8 minutes and are pleased with the finish, you'll probably be thrilled with a planer.  And the amount of time for each board if less than 30 seconds.

   Kell

2. 
   johnhardy | Jan 31, 2003 12:40am | #2

   I'd get myself a benchtop planer and be done with the job in hours, not weeks. I have the Delta 1-speed, but there has been lots written in the forum about the Delta 2-speed as being killer for a perfect finish on the slow feed speed. I would guess that the price is in the $400 range and that's the one I'd get. (I bought mine before the 2-speed became available.)

   You probably would want to build an in-feed and an out-feed table to support the wood better so you don't get snipe. Another trick is to get a long piece of melamine shelving and use it as a sled. Put your boards on top of the melamine and let 'em go. You put a block under the melamine shelving about half way so that it is immovable and acts as a firmer bottom for the wood to slide on. (The block keeps the shelving from moving along with the wood as the rollers move the wood through the planer.)

   John

3. 
   StanleyNiemiec | Jan 31, 2003 01:14am | #3

   Assuming that you have no machining defects (eg tearout, raised grain, etc) surface quality (smoothness) is a function of knife marks per inch (KPI). 

   As a rule of thumb, dimension lumber (2x....) runs about 8-12 kpi, while finished moulding and millwork generally has >36kpi.  Therein surface quality is a function of the number of knives in the cutterhead and the rate of feed.  So dimension lumber generally has very high feed rates while moulding and millwork has slower rates (or more knives in the cutterhead).

   Each time the knife on a circular cutterhead makes a pass, it cuts an arc.  The closer the knife marks are to each other the smaller the arc and therein the smaller the overall variation in depth from the surface plane.  Obviously the smaller the variation, the easier it is to sand the surface (removing high points) to obtain a truly flat planar surface.

   When you start getting surfaces with kpi >48 it is almost impossible to see the individual knife/machining marks.

   There is an inherient problem with too slow a feed (too many kpi) due to the fact that there is friction between the knives and the wood.  If you get too slow a feed in too dense a wood, sufficient heat is generated so as to initiate machine burn (a defect that is very difficult to remove).

   The method to determine kpi is relative simple  --  multiply the number of knives in the cutterhead (assuming that they are equally set) by the cutterhead rpm and then divide by the feed rate in inches per minute.

4. 
   forestgirl | Jan 31, 2003 01:24am | #4

   I think you'd be very pleased with the results after using a benchtop planer, though at least with the one-speeds out there, there would still be some sanding to be done.  I can take stock from my one-speed Delta and sand with 180, then 220 or just 220 and be done.  The two-speed will get you there faster.

   The marks you see as stock comes out of the planer are like ripples.  Tilting them in the light will make them jump out at you.  These might telegraph through your finish if they aren't sanded.

   With regard to how long it took to sand the boards you've already done, it could be that you started with a grit that was too fine.  It might have gone much more quickly if you had started with 150, or even 100, and worked your way up.

   forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl   ;-)

   
   

   ---

   Edited 1/30/2003 5:26:40 PM ET by forestgirl

5. 
   HowardAcheson | Jan 31, 2003 01:33am | #5

   First, let me suggest that sanding outdoor wood to 220 makes little sense. It even makes less sence if that is what you are starting with. If you start with 100 and then finish up with 150 you will be done in a couple of minutes per board. For furniture finishing going above 180 grit is not necessary.

   A tabletop, one speed planer would probably give you a "good enough" surface.

   If you are going to paint it, the factory surface may be fine. Have you test painted a board to see how it looks? Exterior paint is heavy and thick and would certainly cover almost any factory surface that I have seen on siding.

1. 
   brucepirger | Jan 31, 2003 01:53am | #6

   Thanks for all the replies!

   This is t&g pine for the interior surfaces...ceiling, most walls, etc. It will be finished with waterbased polyurethane, ie. something like Minwax Polycrylic. Nothing exterior here.

   The material is standard t&g pine. It's been run through the shaper/planer, I assume, at the mill to cut the t&g, v-notch, and plane the surfaces. I can see planer "stripes" across the material...some worse than others. If I look at the material, this is from memory, I'd guess maybe there's 8 or so "waves" per inch...right as quoted to be expected perhaps with dimensional lumber. You'd think maybe t&g would be a little more slower run through the mill...These stripes are exactly what I want to remove with the sanding.

   I did try a coarser grit initially...150...but it didn't seem to make much of a difference cutting down faster. The pine can be a bit gummy...sand a wetter board (it's all been kiln dried, some are a bit wetter) and you sure can feel it. (Or is it just extordinarily higher resin/sap content?)

   I have been looking at the dual speed Delta, 22-580. I guess I'm curious if its finish is going to be vastly superior before spending the $400...I'd think at 90 cuts/inch it should be! Just haven't seen it first hand.

   It's been fun building the house and buying tools. Already started thinking about the shop...but I suspect it will be a few years away!

   Edited 1/30/2003 5:55:56 PM ET by PIRGERBRUCE

1. 
   Mackwood | Jan 31, 2003 07:30am | #7

   You should have built the shop first!

   Mack

1. 
   brucepirger | Jan 31, 2003 06:39pm | #9

   I DID! LOL Want to build a fullscribe log home...kids are getting too old and I don't want to wait any more (8,7,5)...so I built a 44x32 gambrel roof "workshop" that I wanted to make livable...until we could build the real house.

   Well, a few (maybe a few hundred) "Wouldn't it be nice....", "Might as well...", "If we're gonna live here for a couple of years...." and now this workshop is 2800 sq ft, 4 bedrooms, 2.5 baths, t&g pine, beautiful kitchen, radiant heat, 8 skylights, blah blah blah! With 10' ceilings downstairs, wide open space, cathedral ceilings (the gambrel), it'll make a BEAUTIFUL shop some day! For someone else maybe! LOL

   And now I'm thinking about the shop! LOL

   I figure the cabin maybe will come when I retire and move to the mountains.

   Thanks for all the tips folks. I think I'll pick up the two speed Delta and give her a whirl. One nice thing about this project, since I am building everything myself, I buy just about any tool I need. It's been nice.

   I've been reading FWW and FHB for a couple of years...it's been the source of much of my building knowledge. Reviews are good, talking to you folks is much better!

2. 
   mrles | Jan 31, 2003 09:40am | #8

   Buy the planner, you will never have a better reason whether you use it on this job or not. Further on down the road you will look for reasons to justify you new tool purchases.

   Check out your boards and see if they are cupped, if they are that planner might take off more board in places you might not want too lose. I have an older Delta 1 speed and have been well pleased with it.

   God Bless

   les 

3. 
   HowardAcheson | Jan 31, 2003 07:08pm | #10

   Sorry, from you original post I assumed you were using the T&G outside.

   One thing to keep in mind that if you use a waterborne finish, you will raise the grain and need to re-sand to get it smooth again. An oil based finish may be better.

   The pine you are using is probably construction grade and not kiln dried to the same level as furniture grade lumber. At best, it may be only 12% while furniture grade is 5-6%. Expect some contraction as it acclimates to your house.

   As far as the dual speed Delta is concerned, I was unable to see a significant difference in the high speed or low speed feed. Both were very nice finishes but I would still scrape or sand before I would consider the surface furniture finish ready. But, for wall treatment it should be fine.

   The dual speed Delta does do a nice job on figured wood the tends to "tear out". The slow speed minimized this problem so that, for me, is a good reason to have one.

   Edited 1/31/2003 11:12:26 AM ET by Howie

6. 
   billballeza | Feb 01, 2003 01:36am | #11

   Mind you, I've never used a planer..but I've done plenty of reading and there are two issues I don't see covered here.

   1) Planers frequently create a condition called "snipe" which means your boards come out thinner on the ends.

   2) If your boards are not straight when they go in.. they won't be straight when they come out. A jointer is sometimes called for as a first step.

   If these are not issues for you.. I'd go with the Ridgid 13" bench planer which is available at HD for just under $400. It comes with two blades, a dust port, and a stand. The blade change has been clocked by FW at 5 minutes and it had the least (as in practically none) snipe of all the bench planers tested.

   bill

1. 
   johnhardy | Feb 01, 2003 03:41am | #13

   If the boards are done in an assembly line fashion you'd get absolutely no snipe because each board would be back-to-back with the one before it. the only snipe would be on the very first board and the very last board. This clearly requires s2 people, but is doable and would be my preferred method.

   John

1. 
   billballeza | Feb 01, 2003 06:05am | #14

   I just learned something. Thank you.

   bill

1. 
   BG | Feb 01, 2003 04:17pm | #15

   Pirgerbruce,

   I agree with all that has been said but becareful not to make your wife any false promises.  The thickness of the T&G may vary and several adjustments and/or passes may be required.  So while you can't guarantee that it will speed up the total job time it should be a lot less work.  One thought you might want to consider...rent a floor sander...and mass sand several boards simultaneously....either in lieu of the planer..or if the finish needs a bit more.  Good luck

1. 
   brucepirger | Feb 03, 2003 06:45pm | #16

   Thanks all for the info! I have to finish this batch of t&g and then move on to the next. I didn't expect it to consume 80 hours or so JUST to get it ready to hang...argh.

   Worst part is my sander (i.e. wife) is back to school and I'll be without help.

   So, anything is worth trying! LOL

   Thanks again!

2. 
   cutter | Feb 04, 2003 06:43am | #17

   I believe the pine you are talking about is called car siding or box car siding.I am on my third house that I have installed this on.The planer will do two things ,YES it will make the boards smooth enough to install,and as a bonus it will make the boards the exact same thickness so you won't have "bumps"at the but joints.Also latex poly won't raise the grain much,just a light sanding between coats will make you happy I think....Cutter

7. 
   fdampier5 | Feb 01, 2003 03:12am | #12

   You'll like the finish..  Not flawless or perfect but very nice.. I've got a single speed delta bench top 12 1/2 inch and on soft woods like cherry, tamarck etc. It's finished to an almost furniture grade. 

     Plan on a way to deal with the shavings.. you'll have plenty!