Replies

1. 
   JohnWW | Jun 15, 2007 09:41pm | #1

   Stef,

   A quick search turned up a chart that says a 5 HP motor will typically need 15,000 watts to start up, so you are distinctly short.  Pulling 60 amps at 240 volts is 14,400 watts, which would seem to confirm the 15,000 watt requirement.  Your theory about not having two 120 volt legs isn't valid. 

   If possible, you should get a knowledgeable electrician and generator serviceman to check your system out for a faulty set up, or a technical problem, but I suspect that your primary problem is that the generator is too small for the load you are trying to drive.  

   Google "generator sizing" and you'll get a lot of information.

   We have a new Rikon band saw in our shop for testing and it is also very slow to come up to speed, seems to be the strange nature of the motors they use.

   One solution, if you can run the planer in a shed or otherwise deal with the exhaust, is to drive the planer with a gas engine.

   John White, Shop Manager, Fine Woodworking Magazine

1. 
   RonRocheleau | Jun 19, 2007 07:03pm | #10

   I have a Rikon 18".  It also was slow to come up to speed.  Adjusting the lower belt fixed the problem and not it starts right up and reaches full speed in a few seconds.

1. 
   JohnWW | Jun 19, 2007 08:00pm | #11

   I'll check the tension on our saw.  Was the belt on your saw too tight or too loose? 

   Thanks for the tip,

   John White

    

   Edited 6/19/2007 1:00 pm ET by JohnWW

1. 
   RonRocheleau | Jun 19, 2007 08:28pm | #12

   The belt was too loose and slipped as the motor came up to speed.  Also made some whinning noise.  Once it reached full speed the BS worked fine though. 

2. 
   BruceT999 | Jun 17, 2007 06:33am | #2

   "maybe the problem with the planer/bandsaw is that they can't work with one 240v feed, but need two legs of 120v."

   A 240V feed is in fact two legs of 120V. To provide 240V service, the power supplier (Edison Company or your generator) gives you two legs of 120V AC exactly 180 degrees out of phase with one another. Potential between either leg and the grounded (white) wire will be 120V, Potential between both hot legs will be 240.

   BruceT
1. 
   fatboy2 | Jun 17, 2007 06:59pm | #4

   Thanks Bruce,
   But that is the problem. I think the generator is producing one leg of 240-not two legs of 120. I believe that because 1. At the panel there is only one wire coming in from the generator, and f2. Both tool plugs have only black and white wires, plus a ground. Not the usual black, red, and white 3. To get 120 we run the 240 through a transformer.
   Further thoughts?
   Stef

1. 
   BruceT999 | Jun 17, 2007 07:41pm | #5

   What you say is a little confusing."1. At the panel there is only one wire coming in from the generator"
   One wire, or one cable with two wires inside, each connected to one of the bus bars in the panel?"2. Both tool plugs have only black and white wires, plus a ground. Not the usual black, red, and white"
   The color of the wires in the line cord of your motor don't matter functionally, just the size. Are they 8 or 10 gauge? Are the blades of the plug horizontal instead of vertical as with an ordinary 110V plug?"3. To get 120 we run the 240 through a transformer."
   I don't understand why, if you have 240V AC at your panel, you would use a transformer to get 120V instead of simply connecting a breaker to one bus. A transformer consumes a great deal of power in wasted heat to change voltage, acceptable for 120V to 12V or 24V step-downYou may want to consult a local electrician or at least post your generator questions on BreakTime and let the sparkies there help you.
   BruceT

1. 
   bd | Jun 17, 2007 11:20pm | #6

   Bruce, FatBoyI've never seen one, but it sounds like his generator might have a single 240 v circuit. Never been to Europe, but don't they use 220/240 v as their principal voltage on residential circuits? FB, sounds like you may have a unique installation. If you have a standard consumer oriented generator that's sold in the US, all of the 240 v circuit connectors should be of the round twist lock type (3 oe 4 wire) & the 120 v should be the standard 3 prong. If it's a commercial unit you have, it's outta my league.If it's possible that you just have a single 240 v leg on that circuit, then you are definitely going to have to do something else to run your machines. Should be easy to check w/ a voltage meter. Whatever you're plugging your planer into, check the voltage readings on each of the two legs.

1. 
   Ray | Jun 18, 2007 07:28pm | #8

   BD, I believe you've hit it, that does sound like a European setup with single-phase 240.  Without trying to get too technical, American 220-V motors need the 120-deg. phase difference between the legs to start.  (sounds obscene doesn't it?).  What's needed here is a rotary converter.  A European-type motor turning an American-type alternator.  They are available, but a new generator would probably be cheaper.

2. 
   fatboy2 | Jun 18, 2007 05:14pm | #7

   Sorry its confusing,
   All the wiring is pulled wiring not romex. From the generator it is a hot, neutral, ground. Not the usual two legs of 120. That goes into a separate panel. Our house is off the grid, so we have solar panels, which produce 48vdc That goes into an inverter which converts to 120AC
   for the house panel, a 200amp panel.
   The generator feeds into a separate system/panel, which is isolated from the house wiring. That then goes into a transformer, which converts the 240 to 120 and that is fed into the charge controller, which feeds into the inverter. True, it is a little complex.
   The machines all came with bare wires, and I installed the male plugs. They are all 240v, 30amp plugs. The orientation of the blades, in this case, is immaterial.
   thanks for the help
   Stef

3. 
   Jfrostjr | Jun 17, 2007 03:53pm | #3

   I am no electrician _ i don't like things I cannot see and electrons fall into that category - but -

   I have always understood that 'starting' amperage draw is always much higher than 'running' amperage draw. (Similar to a motor at stall.) It may be possible to have someone modify the wiring on your motor so that it starts on a 'part winding' and once up to speed reverts to the full winding. This would require a centrifugal switch or perhaps could be done manually.

   Frosty

4. 
   RickL | Jun 18, 2007 09:46pm | #9

   Any reason you didn't contact the company who sold you the generator?  Let them earn their money. Even though it's a problem with a woodworking tool it's more an issue with the generator manufacturer. I'd be on the phone with their techs instead of here.

   
   

   ---

   Edited 6/18/2007 4:16 pm ET by RickL

5. 
   BarryO | Jun 20, 2007 10:30pm | #13

   Your planer needs a single 240V circuit.  It does not matter if it comes from a 240V-only circuit (like from your generator), or from 2 120V circuits that are out of phase (like in normal utility-fed 240V/120V single-pahse service).  This is different from, say, and electric clothes dryer, which needs a combination 240V/120V circuit.

   A 5 HP single-phase motor is a big one.  Its startup current is too much for your generator, as you've discovered.  Besides output watts, generators are also usually rated for the motor 5 HP they are capable of starting.  You need a generator capable of starting a 5 HP motor.