Not long ago, I purchased a Ridgid planer and have used it moderately over the past few months. I have a day job so we’re only talking probably a couple of hundred linear feet. Tonight I was planing down some 5/4 cherry and was getting snipe on both front and back, noticeable. Even using an auxillary bed extending 1′ front and back, the problem remained. Now, to avoid the snipe on the tale, I can simply elevate the board as it is leaving the rollers, but how do I avoid the front snipe. If I raise the level of the front aux. bed (currently level), would this help. Or is there something fundamentally out of whack here, other than me. The cutterhead is engaged during this process.
Thanks.
Replies
Does the Rigid planer have bed rollers?
PlaneWood by Mike_in_Katy
PlaneWood
No, no bed rollers, just steel extensions.
Boy Plunder
I have a 12" Delta planner and had the same problem. I built a box out of 2"x 6" fir and 3/4 plywood. The box is app. 20" x 8' with a hole in the middle to set my planner down into. I made a platform to set my planner on to bring it up to level with the top of my box. This gives me almost 4' on either side of my cutterhead. This pretty well eliminated my snipe problem. I set it on two sawhorses and use either end as work area when I'm not using the planner.
I picked the 2x6's to get the straightest ones possible and trued them up on my tablesaw, I then glued and screwed it together.
It works for me!
God Bless and Good Luck
les
Sounds like a nice setup. Its kind of funny, and sad, how much effort it takes sometimes to make tools perform the way they should out of the box. I always assumed that snipe would occur on the end, but the front has me scratching my head. When you read the reviews of these planers in the pop. magazines and they say neglible snipe, I wonder what they really mean.
BP,
It's interesting you bring this subject up because I am looking at purchaseing a used Delta and before purchaseing I decided to research the "Tool Reviews" from some of the mags. According to one of the articles snipe is a result of the planer head rocking to and fro as the wood is pushed through the rollers. Now this is not abnormal, they do say that the planers with roller locks do have less snipe because the lock is able reduce the rocking previously mentioned. The article mentioned that a 2" snipe is to be expected on the front and rear because this is the distance between rollers. It sounds like a bunch of "hooouuie" to me but that is the way they explain away the problem.
Keep The Wood Flying!
Boy.
Obiviously, the snipe is happening because the stock is not level before and after the engagement of the (both) rollers. Sitting on a board that extens beyond the stock only helps a little. I made a rolling cart with flip-up mellamine wings...that provides support for the planer..and support for the compound miter. Which ever tool is not being used gets stored underneath on the cart. I never get snipe on my Delta 12 1/2"
I see your point, but the extensions are level with the bed of the planer. I've checked them using a straightedge across the entire width and length. I suppose my next step is to make sure the cutterhead lock is tight enough, but the locking lever certainly feels snug with no slop.
Boy,
But arn't your extensions only about 12" like mine on the planer? With my set up I have level extensions about 48" on each side..not to belabor the point ..but a long heavy board needs more support..
Since you have down a good technique, it sounds like the board may be bent. Face joint first then run thru the planer. If the board isn't flat, you get what looks like snipe at both ends. The middle is fine because both rollers flatten the board. But the time the leading and traling edges of the stock are between the two rollers, the ends spring up and into the cutter head.
I haven't done it, but have read about another solution to reduce snipe. Get an 8 foot by 12 inch wide melamine shelf, put a stop on the bottom so it doesn't move thru the planer, and use this as a false bottom on the planer. Have about 4 feet sticking out the front and the rest out the back. The wood slides on the melamine and snipe is reduced.
Another thing to try is to build a 3/4 inch thick sled, say 8 feet long, for you to use. If the lumber on the sled slides, put some sandpaper on the sled. You can then use some other lumber as sacrificial pieces, front and back, so that the snipe is on those instead of the good stuff. (This would reduce your net planing width, however.)
John
BP,
Snipe isn't entirely avoidable, at least not in my last 35 years in the business. I've reduced it, but if I'm after perfection I start with lumber that's 5-6-inches longer than the workpiece I want to end up with. I reduce snipe by gently lifting up on the piece at the beginning of the infeed, and then I walk around and do the same as it exits the outfeed side.
My old Parks planer has bed rollers, which are under the powered, in- and outfeed rollers. It helps if the top of the bed rollers are in plane with the table, but that only works on already planer smooth surfaces. For the first pass on a rough sawn workpiece, I raise the bed rollers with 1/32-in-thick shims, and then I remove the shims for subsequent passes, with the workpiece's planed surface down.
Some of the newer, professional grade machines reduce, or almost eliminate snipe. I think they do it with well designed, soft rubber feed rollers under properly loaded springs. Until I see the profit in one, I'll stick to my methods on the Parks and and waste a few inches of each workpiece. I sometimes have to anyway, because lumber often has splits that run a few inches in from the ends.
Gary
We use a Ridgid Planer and run at least 500 sq. ft. of flooring a month thru it, with no snipe. If we don't lock it you get a little bit, but not mouch. I change the blades at least once a week. Its about 3 years old. As others have said "its a work horse"
You have to suport it going in and out. I plane up to 16' long boards without an en-feed or out-feed table
you might have to take it back HD.
Is under worenty?
Jeff in so cal
65 f---58%---High clouds
Interesting, that would support most of the reviews I have read regarding the Ridgid. It should be under warranty since all Ridgids have a lifetime warranty.
Update - It was the cutterhead lock. After adjusting it a few clicks so that it would lock down tighter, it all but eliminated the problem. Using a caliper, its down to 1/64" on the front, back is negligable. Talk about feeling like an idiot.
Edited 12/5/2002 6:42:13 PM ET by BOY_PLUNDER
Thickness planer snipe is a natural result of physics. The only way to deal with it is to cut it off. The material is fed through the machine on a bed. In big machines, the bed is something more than a piece of thin stainless steel plate, incorporating pressure rollers and cast iron.
In all machines, above the timber being thicknessed, there are three rotating 'drums'. At the beginning of the cut, there is a powered feed roller which squashes the material down onto the bed. After the feed roller there is a small gap, and then the cutters mounted in the cutting 'roller' (block) engage and cut off some material thickness. After the cutting 'roller' is another gap, and an outfeed freewheeling 'roller' that holds the timber down as the cutting 'roller' (block) finishes its cut.
In big machines, between the infeed 'roller' and the cutting 'roller', and between the cutting 'roller' and the outfeed 'roller' is a chipbreakers at the beginning, and a hold down at the end that further help to control the cut, and help to reduce 'snipe'.
In physics, if you take a long lever, such as a piece of timber, and create moments about a point (a pivot) and lever down on the long exposed end, then you'll end up with levering the short end (snipe) up into the cutting action because the material is not properly supported either side of the cut-- it's supported by only one 'hold-down' device-- the infeed or outfeed roller.
The effect of physics and leverage is compounded if the piece being cut has some natural 'springiness' to it, where the natural springiness is 'up' into the cutting knives of the cutter block. For all these reasons and more-- which I'll avoid discussing in a short answer, snipe is normal, and to be expected. We all just machine the pieces a wee bit long, and cut the snipe off-- about 100 mm, i.e., 50 mm at each end.
Never believe any advertising copy that claims a thickness planer made by 'such and such' a company doesn't exhibit snipe. It's a barefaced lie, and adverts submitted making that claim ought not to be accepted by responsible publications and other news media. Slainte.
Some stuff I've made.
Edited 12/5/2002 9:22:25 PM ET by Sgian Dubh
There's no doubt about the physics of snipe[age], but a VP of Powermatic explained to me while on a tour of their factory what can be dome by manufacturers to reduce or eliminate it. They even have a cutaway diagram of the problem on the wall showing the relationship of the various rollers. According to my host, the solution, which appears to be too costly a fix for all but the larget and most magnificent planers, is additional rollers adjacent to the cutterhead both above and below the plane of travel, plus one roller opposing the cutterhead, which together maintain the workpiece at a single plane whilst [same as while] traversing the bed of the machine. Sounds good to me, but I just deal with snipe like everybody else. My big problem with planers (and which I've confessed before on Knots) is trying to match exactly the thickness of workpieces that aren't all done at the same time -- as in having to thickness a piece toward the end of a project because I didn't do enough at the start.
I haven't seen those engineering solutions, Jim. It sounds like the cost would be higher than most users would pay, and cutting off the last couple of inches at either end is what everyone I know in the business allows for.
As to your other problem, I have no solution, but I've been there too, as I suspect just about everyone has, ha, ha. Slainte.Some stuff I've made.
I forgot to mention one solution to the repeat sizing problem: the wide belt sander. Last year I bought a Performax and use it as the final step in milling. Not only does it make life easier when matching thicknesses, it also helps with the snipe problem. But it's a rather drastic solution at around $800.
i'm with gary weisenburger who posted above- just lift up gently (if you're tipping over your planer, that would be too much) on the end of your board as you feed it in, then walk around- or your co-conspirator- and lift it as it comes out. i have an old inca 550 that snipes every time unless i do this- it virtually eliminates any trace of snipe.
as also mentioned above- this trick only works really well with a solid platen. bed rollers might not always supply support to the bottom right where you need it when you lever the board up against the outfeed roller.
mitch
Hi all,
Like most people who make their living with a planer, and like tools, I just whack the ends. Prior to planing, I whack boards into as long a pieces as I can flatten without getting too thin. Then I label the ends (ie.2 stiles @ 32 or 8 rails @9/ 4rails @12). The waste is usually insignificant, especially as the ends are usually checked anyway, and most generally have a different moisture content from the rest of the stick as well.
I've noticed one cause of end snipe, that I haven't seen mentioned yet. It is caused by too much down pressure on the feed rollers. On medium sized planers with segmented feed rollers and jack screws raising and lowering the bed, the feed rollers actually force the bed down if set to too much tension. Even with the bed rollers dropped out of sight, snipe will occur because the bed moves downward once as it passes under the infeed roller, then moves down again as the board passes under the outfeed roller. The reverse happens at the end of the board.
From my point of view, there are far more serious things to worry about than end snipe.
Just my opinion.
Clampman
Jim...getting a repeat setting is an easy task. Make reference marks on your crank handle and make a note of where the handle was. You could also mount an inepensive caliper to the table and machine ($12 Enco) There's other ways but they cost more. It is possible to get repeatability within .005" quite easily. Start by planing a piece of wood. Give the handle one rotation and plane a second piece of wood. Measure the difference. If one crank takes off 1/16" of wood then 1/4 turn will remove a 64th.
As far as snipe I haven't had a chance to tinker with these small planers but snipe isn't a given on all planers by any means. As one who made a living fixing and tuning machines I've had plenty set snipe free. On the bigger ones the main culprit of snipe is the bed-rolls. I usually set them around .003" and keep the bed waxed. The next problem is usually the pressure bar which is just past the cutterhead. It has to be set to the cutting circle. The bigger machines have longer beds which supports the wood better of course. Some are as long as 8' .
Rick
Thanks, Rick, I just might give that a try. I've got one of those 15-inch Taiwanese (Powermatic) planers and it's pretty hefty and repeatable. The problem has always been sneaking up on the depth of cut to match a board that was planed a few days ago. The little depth scale that screwed to the side ain't worth squat!
The scale is just a ballpark reference. It's useful to know exactly where you want to be. Sneaking up on it has it's limitations. The last pass shouldn't be so light that you get the feed roller imprints in the board. All my machines have notations of what one complete turn of the adjustment handle will give. That way if I need 1/32" I can zero in on it.
Rick
Rick -- I think you're right about that. When I get back to the shop I'll give your idea a go. Thanks.
Hi Jim,
I have one of those planers too (King Industrial in my case) and there is one odd thing about the outfeed roller and I wonder if it is the same with yours. The OF roller is very smooth metal (no neoprene cover etc.) and it does not do a particularly good job of pulling the wood through the blade for the last few inches. Is yours like that and have you had any similar problems? I waxed the bed to minimize friction with the wood which helps but this does not cure the problem.
Yes, it sounds as if you might be having a problem, but I'm not the one to ask. I do know that there are after market companies that will coat rollers for you with neoprene or whatever, including the infeed roller that comes with ridges to grip the work. I've talked with these people at shows, but never followed up.
(I assume you're talking about a powered outfeed roller.) If you're talking about the rollers that simply support the work, on my machine, there are three rollers on the infeed side and also three rollers on the outfeed side (PM was the only machine with 6 rollers when I bought it several years ago). To lessen snipe, I lift up on the tail of the workpiece as it enters the cutterhead and then lift up on the leading edge as it comes out, also. This keeps the cutterhead from pressing down on the end of the workpiece at the two points in its travel when its not supported internally.
Jim,
Yes, I am referring to the powered outfeed roller. What is your roller maid of? Is it heavily textured metal or is it coated with neoprene etc.?
Does your machine have a pressure bar? It's found just past the planer head. This affects feeding. I would typically set them a few thousandths higher than the cutting circle. The planers in the shop I'm in now get a fairly heavy workout. I started measuring the knife height just before a change and I find the knives get beat down .005" to .010" from the starting height. I've started setting the pressure bar at .010" to compensate. What happens is the knives get dull and the pressure bar ends up being lower than the cutting circle of the blades and the board can't fit under the pressure bar so it gets stuck in the planer. Some machines have a slightly spring loaded pressure bar. Older industrial models typically have a fixed pressure bar so there is no leeway.
Rick
Rick,
I never heard of this "pressure bar" before this. Mine doesn't seem to have one. The only things in contact with the board on the top side are the two rollers and the cutter head. Based on your experience, what is the outfeed roller usually made of? Is it neoprene coated or a textured metal? As I said before, mine is smooth metal, not glassy but too smooth to create much friction wih the surface of the board. What's up with that?
Standard is a smooth metal outfeed roller in an industrial planer. The serrated roller is on the infeed. The lunch box planers and many of the home shop ones have been using some sort of rubber rollers over the last 15 years. It can get confusing talking about planers because everyone has something a little different these days it seems. The pressure bar is standard on industrial machines even the small ones like the Parks 12". Having a smooth roller has never been a problem in my experience. I believe Martin has been putting a rubber type roller in their planers but those are top of the line industrial planers. The pic included is an older SCMI I had to repair and it has smmoth metal rollers on the outfeed. Two rollers is not typical either. It's no wonder these posts on planers, snipe and feed problems can get confusing as everone has something a little different.
Rick
Edited 12/9/2002 6:21:31 AM ET by rsl
RSL,
Thanks for the pic and the info. You've restored my faith that a smooth metal outfeed roller is a reasonable and workable system. I will tweak the machine a bit more to get the performance I'm expecting.
I agre with you Sgian, but I have to say this little Ridgid is close to being none.
I just ran a 6" wide piece of q/white oak thru the Ridgid it was 1/128" in the front and back. Then I ran it 3 more times and it was the same each time.
I have used alot of "big" planers in my time. This is the best Ive seen for snipe!
Jeff in so cal
70f---45%
I'm so sick of this topic reappearing over and over that I thought I'd respond. As Sgian said it happens and learn to figure extra length. But, I thought I'd add that instead of feeding your stock straight through, angle it as much as you can through the width of your planer. This greatly reduces snipe and helps with some harder to plane wood such as maple. Common sense really, you don't handplane perfectly parallel to the edge of the board, you skew the plane. Same thing.
John E. Nanasy
I found this method on another site, so its not original, raise the infeed and outfeed tables about 1/8" higher than the platform. this forces the wood up and maintains better contact with the rollers, eliminated my problem.
You might have to live with snipe, but to minimize it, when your stock comes in Plane the longest lengths first & then cut your lengths.
Another trick is to feed through a shorter piece of scrap to start the run and then butt your good stock up to that to feed through. Keep each piece butted up tight to the preceeding and you will have no snipe except on the initial sacrificial piece.
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