Have decided I want to move to the next level, and start to incorporate more hand planes into my woodworking. So I’m wondering if anyone can suggest any good books with general plane knowledge and in-depth knowledge on technique?
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Replies
Stu, I just finished reading "The Handplane" book, published by Taunton. It is very enjoyable and informational.
I also just added the attached Lie-Nielson 4-1/2 bench plane and adjustable block plane to my collection. They are a joy to use.
Good luck.
Unisaw:
Is that the one by Garrett Hack? What did you like about the book? Did it have a lot of technique information? From looking at the review on amazon.com it appears that book might not have a lot on technique or how-to. What was your impression?
Follow up question for ya on the 4.5 plane you just picked up. LN are pretty expensive. The most recent Woodcraft catalog has a Bailey 4 listed for $58. While the LN's number 4 bench plane lists for $250.00. What do I get for the extra $192.00? Is the LN a better, easier to use plane? Would the LN make learning to master hand planes easier?
Thanks in advance...Stuhttp://www.stubert.funtigo.com
Stu,
Yes that's the same book. The chapters on "Tuning a Plane" and "How to Plane" are good for beginners as well as experienced woodworkers.
I don't think there is going to be just one book on hand planes. I must have a dozen books on hand planes and sharpening - and I've learned from all of them, but I don't think just one book will teach you all you need to know.
Tuning a handplane is critical. I have several Stanley Bailey planes, they work pretty well but out of the box they need to be tuned. The soles are not always dead flat, and the blades need to be sharpened and honed.
If I were looking for my first plane, I would start with a Lie-Nielson block plane at about $95. Try this link:
http://www.lie-nielsen.com/tool.html?id=102&cart=105631389221310
The nice thing about Lie-Nielson planes is that they are pretty much tuned at the factory, and can be used almost right out of the box.
I've attached a photo of shavings from the handplanes.
Stubert,
Gotta agree with just about everything Unisaw said. I have been at learning and aquiring a few hand planes for about a year. Only recently, quite by accident, I experienced a well tuned plane...wow! Now I'm reworking all my planes to be well tuned...they all cost between $15 and $60 dollars
With the LN, that is what you get for your $192 differential....saves you a year or more of aggrevation.
Thanks Unisaw, Bosscrunk, & BG! Appriciate the info. I've been looking at Plane Basics @ amazon.com. Very confusing. One page says available and ships in 1 to 2 days, the next says not available. I guess I'll find out! That along with Garrett Hacks book sound like a good starting point.
I've actually got the LN low angle plane that, up to this point I have used very sparingly to do simple stuff. Tried to remove some milling marks (on the edges and faces of a table apron) with it today, and it was a disaster!!! Got it adjusted to a very thin cut, and was able to recover from some major tear out. Reading the grain was my biggest screw up. If I'd done that successfully, it would have all been fine.
The lesson continuous...Stuhttp://www.stubert.funtigo.com
A low angle plane is not always the best plane despite the hype from LN. On figured wood of any type, a high angle plane works without anywhere near the tearout.
Also, most LNs don't come ready to work despite what they may advertise. They need to be honed and often times the blades still need to be flattened before use.
LN are good tools, even at 440v, but they don't make up for sharpening, maintenance, and proper applications.
Someone mentioned the Lee Valley option. I haven't tried them yet but intend to do so soon. Lee Valley is one of the quality manufacturers/marketers around.
AEW
When fine woodworking tested planes the LN's were the only ones that worked right out of the box.. (I can attest to that, they shaved a paper thin , heck it was so thin there was only one side to it)
I've never been able to achieve that with any other plane I've owned or used.. I can shave something off with any of the many power planes I own, yet the first time I shoved a LN against some wood I felt like a real cratsman.. something I've never felt before.
so I dropped a grand on a few planes,, big deal I've wasted money on worse things..
In general you are right but I've never seen one that has a microbevel on it so that it works for any length of time. You are right-I've wasted more money on lesser things.
Micro bevel my butt!
now you're gonna tell me the darn things need to be sharpened once in a while..
Awww! you're taking all of the fun out of it..
I've got a bunch of gouges that need sharpening before I can get back to playing with my lathe. Next it will be sharpening the planes and who knows what else..
You guys are gonna force me to use my Tormex system sooner or later aren't you?
On a more serious level, I don't really feel that spending money for really nice tools is a waste of my money.. 30 plus years ago I bought a couple of tool cabinets worth of Snap-on tools. I use them often and still love the feel of them in my hand and the pride I have in such a quality tool..
While I could have used a Craftsman tool or something else I found that the better quality tool made me a better mechanic.. Little things like always setting a tool down on a rag to keep from scratching it. Because I took care of my tools I wound of taking care to do good work..
besides,
He who dies with the best tools wins!
How unreasonable am I? I think tools should come ready to use, and what's more be ready right out of the box..
Tune-up something new? not for me.. besides as a handtool newbie, I kept looking for the switch to turn on my collection of new Lie Nelson's. Untill I find it I'll continue to switch on my mikita planes and leave the Lie Nelsons unmarked in their boxes..
Frenchy,
It all depends how ya look at it. Remember when you were a kid and got a new baseball glove? Remember the routine to make it work for your style of play...the oil, the baseball tied up for several day/weeks..breaking it in to increase flexibility? Now suppose you could buy a glove all prepared for three to four times the price? ...do you really want to give up that glove preperation routine?
Perhaps its a poor analogy, a baseball glove and a plane, but they do deliver some incredible satisfaction.
I hated baseball, I tried out for little league and didn't get picked..
When it comes to hand planes I made the same assumption.. I was a failure..
Today I gave up on trying to plug in the Lie Nelsons and just shoved it across a board.. Pretty inefficent but very quiet.. I was amazed, these wisper thin things curled up from the middle of it.. and the board shaped into the way I'd intended..
It's a miracle!
Now that I've seen it work, I understand what it's supposed to be and now maybe I'll be willing to do some extra work to have it happen again..
I guess my point is when you start you often buy cheap tools because you never know if it's gonna be a waste of time and money or you'll find an interesting hobby..
So you buy some Stanley only to find out it doesn't work.. You think it's you.. So you lose interest and Stanley doesn't get any more money from you.. The bean counter is right, it's too expensive to make a tool that works properly right out of the box..
How much would it cost to have the plane sharp and flat to start with? Is it a secret handshake thing? Do you need to fail X number of times or pay someone Y number of dollars to teach you first?
Of course you can get ready to go performance out of the box, it just costs more. The reason we will buy new and tune-up, is we don't want to pay the premium to have it done at the source. It is all a matter of economics. Skilled labor is not cheap, neither is quality. That's why my Land Crusier cost twice what my Jeep did, it doesn't need the aftermarket goodies and labor to bring it up to the same level.
I still just fire up the belt sander most of the time though...........
What amazes me is that I can do a nice job with power planes yet not get a hand plane to do anything for me.. I have two Mikita 1806B's, a 1002B, and a 1900B
I've planed tens of thousands of board feet of wood, not counting what went tru the Grizzley planer. Yet a Stanley doesn't work in my hands.. Over the years I've tried dozens of times to plane things and failed.. Power tools work or I can buy expensive planes and get them to work..
Some how the hobby/industry is wrong.. Imagine if you had to tune up your Chevy before you could drive it, or you had to align the coils on the TV before you could watch TV....If they sold cars the way they sold tools chances are we'd still be riding horses..
I don't know Frenchy... My first car only cost $2000 and it needed lots of tuning. Only after years of driving did I buy a new $35k car.
Maybe hand planes really are like cars. My first plane is a Sargent copy of the Stanley #5 ($12 on ebay) and I'm just now trying to tune it so I can see if it will work for me. No way in H@LL am I gonna spend $250 on my first plane when my shop needs so many other things...
Kevin
You really don't have to spend hours and hours tuning a new plane. That's the myth that's been propogated by the crowd that tunes tools instead of making things. The power tool set has its own version of tool fiddlers and tuners.
I GUARANTEE you that I can bring any new Record or Stanley plane into very usable condition in less than one hour.
There's the crowd that sweats bullets if their #7 is five thousandths out of flat. Well, that a bunch of bullcrap. As long as the plane will take a clean shaving, you tune the edge that you are planing and not the plane. If you have a decent square - a Starrett for instance, you can plane dead square/flat edges and faces all day long with a plane that has had a minimal amount of fettling.
Edited 6/25/2003 6:48:06 PM ET by BossCrunk
The method I was shown was to take the plane and rub it on a piece of glass with some fine grit sandpaper.
then take the iron and ..well you know the drill..
My point is that if it's square and true to start with you can work and make stuff.. If not then you feel bad..
Now some serious tool addicts think it's more fun to tune up a plane then to build a house. If I visited their shop would I see any dust or shavings? Do they orginize their cut off's in a particular manner to enable them to quickly find what they seek? Just how anal are they?
To me spending one hour correcting some mfg. mistake it's wasted time not happy time..
I have to second that. I tuned a new Record #7 in about 45 min. Let's remember, it's WOOD people! It'll move 5 thousands in an hour if the weather changes. Machines are the same, I devote a day every year to tuning/cleaning/lubing, that's the unisaw, lointer/planer, band saw, shaper and lathe AND all the hand power tools.
BC,
No truer words were ever spoken! (or keyboarded)!! The fine cabinetmakers of old had no lapping blocks or thick plate glass or even silicone carbide granuals and yet they somehow muddled through with their "crudeness" and built some of the most beautiful objects that man has created. I'm sure they trued their tools but it was a very secondary effort and I'm sure they spent as little time on it as possible!
I like my tools to work well but I'll be d----d if I'll spend all my shop time playing with them when I could be making something for someone to enjoy!
Gotta' ask yourself; am I wood working or tool fiddling?!
My (less than) .02 worth!
Regards,
Mack
Mack and Napie:
I appreciate the reality check - I've never understood what the big fuss was about.
Here's to a couple of woodworkers...
Cheers,
Charlie
Frenchy,
The Lie Nielson's don't have an on/off switch because they don't come pre-wired, allowing the owner to configure them to their exact needs... Some like 110v; some like 220v; I prefer 440v 3ph. Mine's only a block plane, but with all that power it's big enough to tackle even the beams on your house.
Jeff
I got frustrated and just shoved the darn things along some wood,, did you know that evan unplugged thay make shavings? Amazing!
Hey, if you've got some LNs in boxes and want to get rid of them, let me know. Then I won't plant any more elms west of the Mississippi, this year.
If all it costs to prevent the dreaded attack of the killer Elms is a couple of grand worth of Lie Neilsons I suspect that's a good deal..
Imagine, when in my youth I used to lie underneath their spreading branches on a warm summer afternoon and feel content! I suppose they are only trying to get back at me for cutting them up and attempting to burn them..
It's funny how a good tree went bad so quickly.. You used to drive thru the streets of Minneapolis with elm tress shading you from the hot summer sun or protecting you during a brief summer rain storm and think kind thoughts of them..
Then all of a sudden they got addicted to elm bettles from Holland and it's been downhill ever since..
Stu,
If you're looking for a rock solid 4.5 (plane) to master, I'd highly recommend Lee Valley's Veritas line of planes (low angle block through a #6 Fore Plane). They boast excellent balance, precision machining, and the same thick A2 steel blade as the Lie-Nielsen. It costs $170 which includes a hardwood front knob and tote. Here's a link http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.asp?page=44751&category=1,41182,45204&ccurrency=2&SID=
If you can avoid it, I would stay away from the $58 Bailey - the current generation of bench planes from Stanley are sloppy tools at best.
The shear artistry and precision of the Lie-Nielsen planes make them worth the price. But from an economic stand point, the Veritas will give you stellar performance, and when you reach master craftsman status, you'll still be very happy with your investment.
If you need any plane tuning or technique assistance, please feel free to ask!Dan Kornfeld, Owner/President - Odyssey Wood Design, Inc.
Thanks for the info Don! Will definitely take you up on your offer to field silly beginner questions. Was looking at the plane you suggested. Would you consider it comparable to the LN Low Angle Smoothing plane or the LN 4.5 Smoothing plane?
Stuhttp://www.stubert.funtigo.com
Stu,
The Veritas (Lee Valley) 4.5 is comparable to Lie-Nielsen's 4.5 Smooth Plane. Both planes have 2 3/8" wide X 1/8" thick A2 blades, and both have strong ductile iron bodies and hardwood knobs and totes. The Lie-Nielsen is a half pound heavier than the Veritas due to the fact that it is 10 3/8" long (Veritas 10" long), and the use of bronze in both its frog and lever cap.
The Lie-Nielsen Low Angle Smooth Plane is basically a very large two handed low angle block plane, with similar geometry and cutting angles (12 degree bed). This plane is only 9.5" long with a 2" blade (same thickness as above), and weighs in at 3.75 lbs. Veritas also has their version of a Low Angle Smooth Plane, but it has a one inch longer body (10.5").
I hope that helps!
Dan Kornfeld, Owner/President - Odyssey Wood Design, Inc.
Edited 6/24/2003 12:08:14 AM ET by Jackie Chan
I just got a jack plane from woodcraft. It's a chinese rosewood sucker.
How does that compare with a truly good plane? (i'd only had "Buck Bros" from the big orange store, and it's a world of difference! Planing is actually not the most frustrating thing in the world!)
Derek,
The Chinese rosewood jack plane is in a realm unto itself as compared to its metal and mechanical counterpart. A wooden plane of this type demands a whole new set of skills to both use it and maintenance properly. The setting of the wedge driven blade takes practice to consistently get it set just where you want it. Its very easy to strike the wedge too hard or not enough, and getting the obvious cutting results. The wedge should never be hit with a standard nailing hammer! A brass hammer or wooden mallet is what's needed to prevent damaging the wedge or blade (the ends will mushroom, or worse, if hit with an inappropriate hammer). The fact that the Chinese plane has no chip breaker like most standard metal planes means that greater care is needed in planing technique and depth of cut used.
The copper throat insert that these planes have will help to increase its longevity, and the vital wear area around the throat.
The bottom line is that it doesn't compare to most standard planes for the above reasons and more. But, if you can master the Chinese plane set up, and you are achieving a smooth and balanced cut/shaving - you'll be able to handle almost any plane out there.Dan Kornfeld, Owner/President - Odyssey Wood Design, Inc.
Plane Basics by Sam Allen. Out of print but available through Amazon. Get it.
Woodcraft Supply carries Planecraft, it's a reprint of a book originally published in 1911. Excellent reference imho. http://shop.woodcraft.com/Woodcraft/product_family.asp?family%5Fid=3421&gift=False&mscssid=4C73171EE029467D9F4CC5863F9F6E43 Lie Nielsen did carry it, too. Visited the Lie Nielsen factory store .......... if you like planes, it's a little bit of heaven. Got a chance to try their new chisels, I was impressed. Screwdrivers, too ....very nice.
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