Replies

1. 
   roc | Jul 18, 2011 10:54pm | #1

   Don't buy sets. Buy one good tool that you need NOW

   Then start saving for one more good quality tool.

   Irwin blue chip seem to be acceptable to some high end woodworkers.  I bought a couple to grind into custom tools.

   Esthetically I don't understand the attraction.  Inexpensive but good enough though.  Don't underestimate the plastic handles they are good and tough.

   For planes that are real tools and as inexpensive as possible I would stick with Veritas.  Seriously well made, usable tools out of the box.  All that other stuff you listed make good paper weights and might be made to work if you already know all about how they should be made.  Just frustration for someone wanting to learn the craft.

    

   In the photos bellow the blue handle jobs in the first photo are Irwins  I reground the end to angle one to the left and one to the right for cleaning up dovetails.  The transparent yellow plastic handle jobs are Stanleys from Home Depot.  You will do just as well to hold your money up in a high wind and let it blow away.  The hardness is just not there.  Dulls quickly.

    

   In the second photo the black handled job is a fine Damascus style layered steel Japanese temple builder's chisel.  Nearly $400.  I don't regret buying it.  I love it !  When I get the edge geometry ground right for even the hardest wood I can pare and fit joints for hours and it is still sharp and not all chipped or dinged up.  The ergonomics of the handle to the blade is noticeably superior as well.

    

   I regret buying or finding some of the cheep ones, the red handled job for instance. I spent  a lot of time getting the back flat and sharpening it.  It was free and that is about how much it is worth. The hardness is just not there.  Dulls quickly.

    

   Many of the other chisels there are good basic Japanese chisels.  Not that expensive.  As long as you don't buy the least expensive they are an excellent investment.  Hold an edge super well, they are sharp and finely ground right out of the package.  Flat, straight; way better than the average western shlock.

    

   A hundred dollars is not too much to pay for a real chisel: a quality chisel. Though $29 is way too much to pay for a whole set of cheep chisels.  Do you see what I am saying ?

   
2. 
   RalphBarker | Jul 19, 2011 12:06pm | #2

   quality and price

   The choices in hand tools can be rather confusing. There are a couple of general criteria that affrect quality. First is the date of manufacture, where older tools can tend to be better than new ones (new ones usually being manufactured in China or India with varying degrees of attention to quality). Second is the market at which the tool is aimed. Tools intended for the construction trades need to be more robust than those aimed at cabinetmakers, for example. Then, there are the fine points - the choice of steel, subtle points in the geometry of the tool, etc.

   With chisels, the most important aspect is the quality of the steel, which affects how well they can be sharpened and how long they will retain the sharp edge. What you save in initial purchase of an inexpensive chisel will be spent many times over in fussing with sharpening it. My favorites are Lie Nielsen and the Japanese chisels I bought years ago from Japan Woodworker. But, the Marples set (English made) I have, made in the '40s or '50s is pretty nice, too.

   With planes, the less expensive planes will often fall short in terms of machining - things like the sole not being flat, or sliding parts not being smooth. These aspects affect how the tool will work - whether it planes well, or makes a mess of the piece of wood. Buying old (pre-WWII) Stanley planes can be a solution, but involves learning how to tune the tool back to life. Veritas and Lie Nielsen are safe bets out of the box, albeit more expensive.

   The next point of consideration is the source of the tool. Home improvement stores generally sell the cheap ones, mostly for homeowners who might use the tool once every few years. Woodcraft and Rockler tend to sell cheap to mid-range tools, while the boutique woodworking tool stores concentrate on better brands.

   Overall, choices are driven by intended use and budget. Better quality tools will be easier to use and can affect the quality of the work produced. Here's a list of some of the sources of quality hand tools:

   http://www.bluesprucetoolworks.com/

   http://www.japanwoodworker.com

   http://www.leevalley.com/

   http://www.lie-nielsen.com/

   http://planemaker.com/

   http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/

   http://www.traditionalwoodworker.com/

3. 
   [email protected] | Jul 19, 2011 02:19pm | #3

   Irwin blue chips and Veritas planes

   The Irwin bules chips are not "high end", but are consistently of better quality than most others in the price range, and consistently land in the top of the field when the magazines do reviews.  They are hard enough to retain the edge. 

   For planes I agree with Roc.  Your best bet unless you want to learn how to fettle planes, and not work wood, are the Veritas line made and sold by Lee Valley tools.  In my mind they give you the best bang for the buck. 

   Lee Valley's bevel up planes would be my first choice, due to the versatility afforded by the ability change change the angle of attack on the wood by simply changing to a different bevel angle on the blade.  One bevel up plane with a few blades sharpened to different bevel angles would give you the ability to rapidly adjust ofr differing grain and hardness in the wood. 

   There is a long standing series of discussions on whether Lee Valley or Lie-Neilson make the best production planes.  They are both making high quality tools that will last your lifetime.  The difference in my mind is that:  Lee Valley is redesigning and refiining the tool to leverage modern casting techniques and cnc machining to produce high quality tools;  while, Lie Nielson is recasting top of the line traditional planes virtually unchanged from the top of the line Stanley planes of nearly a century ago to the highest standards of production.   

   The alternative choice, if you don't mind learning to fettle planes, is to buy higher end production planes made between World War I, and World War II.  The plane had pretty much reached the pinnacle of it's develpoment then, and most of the changes after that were made to decrease the cost of production, as the popularity of planes dropped off.  Stanley, Millers Falls, and Sargeant are all worth the time to restore and fettle if they are in decent shape to start with.  A rusty, pitted mess will still be a pitted mess after you invest a lot of hours in it. 

   But, beware by the time you start upgrading a used plane with a modern blade and chip breaker, investing the time to clean it up, flatten the sole (which will require money for a lapping plate of some kind), replace chipped or broken totes, etc.  If you value your time at all you can rapidly approach the cost of new high quality plane that you don't need to fettle with at all. 

4. 
   bones | Jul 20, 2011 10:43am | #4

   planes & chisels

   First welcome to the craft!   For hand tools i'll say two things one, get the best tool you can afford(save if you have to) and second what my daddy use to say you buy a good tool once.  For chisels, the difference can be pretty amazing.  My first clobber was a stanly (not an old one) that could not hold an edge if it had hands.   It would get the job done, but you were sharpening it every 10 minutes what a pain.   I've got a set of Iriwns that you mention and they are not high end by any means but have served me well.   I had to spend a good amount of time to get them flat & true, but once that was acomplished they cut great and hold an edge pretty good.  I'm saving now for a nice set of Lie-Nielsens but that's another level all together. 

   For planes my first was a stanley block plane from the 80's that was a total POS.   It even ruined me for a long time on even using hand planes.  It was not till about 6 years ago that I needed to use them that I decided to jump in.  I bought my firs Lie-Nielsen and have never looked back.  They are not cheap, but if you ever beleived in "you get what you pay for" it fits them.  Great Tools and a pleasure to work with.  

   What ever you decide to buy  learn to sharpen, and that is an art IMO.  Not having sharp hand tools or not understanding how to do it, will turn you off them quick.  You don't need a $1,000 dollar sharpening system although they are nice.   i started with the scary sharp method with sandpaper and a piece of machined granite.   Works great and is cheap.   Take care and make some sawdust!  Or in this case nice shavings.   

5. 
   roc | Jul 20, 2011 09:40pm | #5

   Add a Rubber Made Tub and You Have The Whole Enchilada

   Isn't any one going to say it ?  You are too polite.  OK I will say it . . . . in reference to my two photographs of my chisel storage "systems approach " :

   "That has got to be about the sorriest looking chisel chest you have ever seen."

   Some masonite, some chips of wood from the scrap bin ( OK not even the scrap bin; I got 'em off the floor ) and some old glue I was saving up for just such a "project".  Can fit about four or five layers of masonite in the Rubber Made tub and viola.

   I wasn't sure how much into chisels I was going to get so nothing fancy on the horizon even now.

   Pathetic.

1. 
   RalphBarker | Jul 21, 2011 10:08am | #6

   your storage system

   Ith hod to tay nting while hoding oneth ton.  ;-)

6. 
   jfsksa | Jul 22, 2011 02:34am | #7

   hand planes

   I agree with the others that say 'you get what you pay for'.  There is a good FW article reviewing planes, article name is Tool Test Smoothing Planes - link below.  Conclusion there is the Veritas and LN set the standard for affordable planes.  I saw a link to a custom plane maker, I think the name was Sauer-Steiner.  I had to check since my last name is Sauer.  They make a smoothing plane in the #4 size, "affordably" priced at 2,650 (those are Canadian dollars, which is not that different from American.)  I know what is going on my Christmas list.  LV and Veritas!

   https://www.finewoodworking.com/fwnpdf/011219042.pdf