Replies

1. 
   DestinDave | Jan 31, 2003 07:47pm | #1

   My view is that there is no absolute answer to this question.

   For me it depends on the size of the project, type of wood, your skill, amount of perfection desired, etc. I am not so skilled with a plane that I can puta final finish on a 3 foot wide surface with a plane, especially with difficult grain. For small piece, I can start and finish with a plane; for larger stuff, I may start with plane, go to belt sander and finish with scraper.

1. 
   billyg83440 | Jan 31, 2003 07:57pm | #2

   ? Where do you get your scrapers? I'd never even heard of a scraper until I started web surfing. Now I'd love to try them. Never found one in a store, or even anyone who knew what I was talking about.

   The only scrapers I've seen were in catalogs. Are grizzley's any good. If I ever order from them I plan to tack a set on and give it a try. Oh, and a burnisher too.

1. 
   RANGERP75R | Jan 31, 2003 08:51pm | #4

   Billy

   http://www.highlandhardware.com

      That's one source, Woodcraft and many of the catalog companies have them. I prefer a Sandvik because of the quality of the steel. A scraper is a flat piece of metal. You can make one from a flat piece of metal.

      As to how to put the hook on it, try Clifton Lee's book Complete Guide to Sharpening. You will find a scraper very valuable in certain situations.

   Happy scraping...ha..ha..

   sarge..jt

1. 
   Pete | Jan 31, 2003 11:44pm | #6

   Clifton Lee's or Leonard Lee's?

1. 
   RANGERP75R | Feb 02, 2003 10:32pm | #13

   Pete

      Sorry, been busy in the shop. Yep, that be Leonard. Sad news is I have read the book at least 4 times. Clifton is his cousin who is a sharp used car salesman. ha..ha..

   Have a great day...

   sarge..jt

2. 
   BG | Feb 01, 2003 12:05am | #7

   Billy,

   Take a look at the Veritas (Lee Valley) burnisher...great for putting the hook on.

   Personally, I don't put planes and scrapers in the same catagorie to be compared.  I use the scraper to remove scratches. This is some new thinking for me....  

3. 
   joker | Feb 01, 2003 12:06am | #8

   I picked up a set at Woodcraft as well, But I also got one, Sandvik, at OSH believe it or not.

1. 
   billyg83440 | Feb 01, 2003 12:28am | #9

   I believe it. Just don't know what OSH is.

   Old Smelly Hardware store?

1. 
   joker | Feb 01, 2003 12:34am | #10

   Sorry about that, it is Orchard supply and Hardware, a major chain of hardware and garden stores in California . I might be making an incorrect assumption that they are everywhere.

4. 
   JeffKurtz | Feb 01, 2003 08:22am | #11

   Grizzly sells Marples scrapers and they're just fine.

   You should be able to find them at any woodworking store.

   Jeff

1. 
   billyg83440 | Feb 01, 2003 10:55pm | #12

   Thanks, good to know they're actually quality.

   There's actually a woodworking store about 40 miles from me I need to get to, they've finally started being open on Saturdays, so maybe I can make it up there one of these weekends. Should buy locally if it's possible.

2. 
   Andrew | Jan 31, 2003 08:28pm | #3

   I find that a well tuned plane with a nice sharp blade leaves a slightly better surface than a scraper, however, if it can't be handled with a plane then I reach for a scraper.

   I use lee valleys copy of the stanley #80 for scraping flat surfaces and I find it is a very well made tool. It is quite easy to use as well.

3. 
   Alan | Jan 31, 2003 10:37pm | #5

   Rickl,

   I, too, think a well tuned smoothing plane leaves a better surface than does a scraper.  Usually not all that much better, perhaps, but on some woods the difference can be very noticeable.

   I also have a Stanley #80 and often use it.  It is a great, very simple tool that does what it's supposed to do with minimum difficulty.  Lee Valley has made a version of the 80 that has several design improvements (I'm told; I don't have a LV).  The 80 is a good, cheap tool that you might want to consider.  However, I don't use mine to finish a surface; I always follow it with a card scraper--which IMHO leaves a better surface than the 80.  I use the 80 for rougher work, such as removing glue or for removing more wood than a card scraper could easily remove.

   Alan

4. 
   NOTRIX1 | Feb 03, 2003 06:33am | #14

   Hi,

   I use a hand scraper, not the scraper tool like the Stanley #80 but just a rectagular piece of metal. Sandvik used to be the undisputed champ of these $8 items but as I understand it no longer make them. I recently bought a Lie-Nielsen scraper for $8 and feels it may be better than the Sandvik. harder to put a hook on to be sure! You really have to bear down on these as opposed to the other brands.

   I use said scraper because in my hands it's much more forgiving. I've planed surfaces before when I had glued up panels and had not choice and did ok but always had to clean up with the scraper or sandpaper. I'm convinced the average planer will out perform the average scraper but am also sure there are those out there who can prove the opposite.

   The trick scraper tool looks to be the Stanley #112. I've had my eye on a vintage one for about $200 or the Lie-Nielsen for the same $$$. It has the ability to adjust the pitch or angle of attack of the blade per the wood your working. Looks pretty hefty as well to ease the use.

   Anyone use this particular type? I'm reluctant to drop dough on tools that I have no experience with. Now that Lie-Nielsen 4 1/2 is another thing!!!

   N

1. 
   dirtstirrer | Feb 03, 2003 07:27am | #15

      Patrick Leach on http://www.supertool.com  speaks highly of the 112 in his Blood and Guts section.  Very intertaining read also.  I too am interested in the 112.  You can usually find them on Ebay in great shape for about $150.  Might save a buck or two.  I wonder if the Lie-Neilsen is in any way superior to the Stanley?  The appeal of owning and using a 75 year old collecter caliber tool is, to me, undeniable. 

      Have you tried the high angle frog in the LN 4 1/2?   I was thinking about giving it a try.

                                                                    Steve

1. 
   plinthe | Feb 03, 2003 08:58am | #16

   Hi guys,

   I've been a hand tool buff for only the past couple of years, so my experience is limited, but I have the L.N. 4 1/2 and have had the York pitch frog for a few months now. I find the higher pitch useful on maple and figured woods. It's a teeny bit harder to push, but I get better results. For pine and well-behaved cherry I go with the 45. 

   I was also wondering about those little scraper planes. I use a Veritas cabinet scraper (no. 80 type) and found that a flat 90 degree blade leaves a better surface than the 45 degrees that they supply. The cabinet scraper has been good enough for me so far, though. I usually finish as a last step with my 4 1/2 on softwoods and some hardwoods. When I can't, which is quite often, because of tearout or plane marks that I can't seem to get rid of, I finish with a hand scraper, then the cabinet scraper, then I sand very lightly by hand with 220. It seems that I can't do without the sand paper if I take a scraper to the wood.

   BTW, most of L.N. stuff has improvements over the Stanley models, maybe worth checking out. There's also the ductile iron, not used on the Stanleys, which make the L.N. almost indestructible. I agree with Steve though, having a piece of history in your hand does have a lot of appeal. But $200 for a scraper plane? Personally, I'd go for a few more decent planes first, like a nice large shoulder plane. I do fine with the Veritas scraper at $35.

   Just my .02

   Plinthe

2. 
   BG | Feb 04, 2003 01:54am | #17

   Notrix,

   At the Woodworking show a couple a weeks ago I tried the LN saws, planes and hand scrapers.  The hook was gone from the hand scraper so the guy took out his Vertitas burnisher, wacked it a couple times, hook was back. 

5. 
   JHARDE02 | Feb 04, 2003 03:03am | #18

   Depends on the wood and the plane or scraper I'm using.  The other day I used a L/N low angle jack on some quartersawn oak.  It left the surface silky smooth with the pores open and not clogged up with dust.  Very nice, and no sanding was needed.  This same plane will leave some tearout in figured maple unless I very finely hone the blade.

   Just ordered the L/N large scraper plane based on the #112.  It should be here any day now.  If it works as well as the other L/N planes I have, it should be a joy to use. 

   I agree with the opinions on the Veritas version of the #80.  Mine works great, and I reach for it more and more often.  Removes wood as quickly as a belt sander without all the noise and dust. 

   Recently made an entertainment center out of cherry.  Used a primus improved smoother as a final step before finishing on most everything I could.  Some of the stock was too finicky, so I had to sand, but the plane worked well enough on most of it to go straight to finishing.

   Regards,

   John