I’d like to buy my first, any only (for now), plane. Brand is up for grabs but I’m leaning towards LN.
It is important to me to understand the tool on the most intimate level. This is my reason for buying and using just this one plane.
Rather then build anything I intend to take some very old, very weathered, fence boards, and plane them to see how the plane works and understand grain behavior. Later, I will use these boards to practice mortises, tenons and dovetails.
Eventually, I’ll buy some decent lumber and actually build something. With that in mind, what would be your suggestion for this plane?
Thanks,
BBR
Replies
BillyBob,
My first LN plane was a 4 1/2 with a York frog...not the correct plane for what you want to do. I bought the LN because its used in the finishing steps of preparing the wood. Also, because I wanted a great tool in great shape to use as a bench mark for all my other used Stanleys. My sugestion would be to find a good dealer of used tools and have him/her provide you with either a #7 or #5. They tune up well and provide the learning curve at about $40-70 in cost each. I had my blade professionally sharpened too ($6) again, as a bench mark for the learning curve...
PS. the LN coast more than my 10 other planes combined
Edited 9/10/2005 12:02 pm ET by BG
One plane isn't enough. You really need several. Especially if you are going to work with them rather than just play.
Don't buy a #5. Yes, they are good good all around plane but they are too in-between to be really good at anything. Buy a #4 or a #4 1/2. That is a GOOD smoothing plane. Then buy a #7 or #8. The #7 or #8 will be your most expensive plane but is neccessary. Then buy a low angled block plane and a large shoulder plane.
That is a good set of 4 to start with. If you really are only going to buy one, get the #4, (or #4 1/2.)
OK, here we go again. I was taught by Deneb Puchalski, a L-N rep at a WW show, that their most versatile plane is by far the #62, the low-angle jack plane. A lot of folks will disagree with Deneb on this--they will tell you that low-angle planes are designed for end-grain, and perform poorly on faces and edges--but Deneb was adamant that this one plane will do it all, and in my experience, he was right (makes sense that he woiuld be...)
There are a lot of technical things I could explain about why this works, and I'm happy to do so if you like; but I think maybe it would be a little dense for a person who's new to hand planes. I'd recommend that you call L-N and ask to speak with someone knowedgable about their tools and discuss this with them. Mention the #62, see what they say; I own several nice planes, many of them L-N, and the #62 is by far my favorite. It's cheap by comparison, and it will scrub, edge joint, flatten, and plane end grain, all quite well if you learn how to work this plane.
Charlie
a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts,
build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders,
cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure,
program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly.
Specialization is for insects.
- Robert A. Heinlein
I began reading "The Seven Essentials..." by Anthony Guidice. He says "...if you become thoroughly familiar with this plane [low angle jack plane (#62)], using it exclusively for a year, you will know just how a plane should work and the type of work it can do...You can learn more from using it for a year than going to a woodworking school or reading 10,000 magazine articles."I would like to learn ONE plane, ONE chisel, & ONE saw so I know them well, how they work, their capabilities, weaknesses and the like. I'm old fashioned in this regard. Sort of like learning to play the piano. If you don't practice your scales & arpeggios, you'll forever stink as a musician. After reading some of the WW masters, I've come to the conclusion that it is the same case with woodworking. I'm in no rush to make things at this point. I'd rather concentrate on the "getting there" then the "being there."I hope this message does not come off sounding snide or snooty. But I find I don't really have any understanding of the basics of wood and for me, at this time, the best way to learn is the slow and simple way.
L-N is advocating some different planes.Most folks, myself included, tend to favor the standard bench, shoulder and low angle block planes. L-N is starting to advocate some other designs. Planes line the low angle jack. At least one of the Rob Cosman videos recommends the rabbet block plane. I don't know if it is just trying to get people to consider other planes beyond the standard bench, shoulder and low angle block planes or if they are trying to move slow sellers. Considering the reputation of L-N I'd say they are trying to get people looking beyound the old standards.One of the fgrustrating things about hand planes is the cost of building a collection. I'd love to experiement with other planes but just doen't have the money to do it so I tend to fall back to the accepted standard planes.
geoff
the low-angle jack plan.. I have a so called 'Junker' that I 'fixed' a bit..NOW I tend to grab it for almost EVERYTHING!Sweet workin' and I did NOT spent alot for it...Well, I still grab my #7 when I need it...
You should explain what type of wood you work, what machines you use, and what you are expecting from the plane before a real answer could be made.
Personally I made the plane jump about 2.5 years ago, if I had unlimited WW funds I would buy LN planes. After a quick hone, your chances of being able to use it are about 95%. Not likely you will need to tune it up any.
Which one depends on what you make, do etc.. For rough barnwood I'd like a rank set jointer plane to start with. Then tighten up the mouth, rehone the blade and see where you get.
Alan
I've pretty much got to throw in with CharlieD. I'm up to 25 planes now - 8 of them LN's. By far the one I grab the most is the LN Low Angle Jack plane. I'd be hard pressed to give up my LN block planes though if I were trying to limit myself to just one plane. No one plane will do everything well. While I admire your goal of working on technique, it's possible you may frustrate yourself in some cases if you're trying to get a plane to do things it's not really designed for.
Waddaya mean it wont fit through the door?
While I admire your goal of working on technique, it's possible you may frustrate yourself in some cases if you're trying to get a plane to do things it's not really designed for.
I completely understand BBR. We don't have the time, or the drive to apprentice ourselves to REALLY learn how to woodwork; so instead we are willing to play for quite some time with a single tool in order to REALLY learn how to use it. We understand that we will NEVER become a really great woodworker, but we want to aquire true knowledge of how a tool like a plane works.
Like BBR I'm facinated by planes. As I learn more about wood and how a plane custs wood the more facinated I become. (BBR, beware; you are going to become disenchanted with your power tools. The more I work with hand tools the more I HATE power tools. I'm becomeing a hand tool elitist. Even to the point where I'm going to abadon my table saw for hand saws.)
BBR, if you REALLY want to learn about planes buy and old one at a yard sale or flea market. One that isn't to rusted or cruddy. (A bit is OK.)
Then fix it. Make it work. You will be tempted to buy a new iron. DON'T, use the old one. New irons are very good, and you can replace the old one eventually, but make the old one work. Making an old plane work well will teach you MORE about how planes work than reading a gazillion books and articles. (But read them, so you know how to fix your old plane. Ask questions here, we'll HELP you!)
Don't buy a new plane. If you buy a really GOOD new plane like an Lie-Nielsen, you will have a plane that works well out of the box. You don't want that. You want one that you have to fix. By fixing you will be forced to LEARN! Once you've learned how planes work then but new ones from Lie-Nielsen so you KNOW how a good plane should be built.
Then consider buildng your own wooden planes, but that is once you are fully sucked into the brotherhood of the planes. :)geoff
Morning Geoff,
I started a post, then went to the store, then came back and finished the post. In the mean time, you wrote a post with the same advice. Guess we're on the same page. Sounds like you are fully under the influence of the hand tools now, cool ain't they?
Steve
Guess we're on the same page.
Only because I'm listening to folks like yourself who know lots more than I do. Thanks.
Sounds like you are fully under the influence of the hand tools now, cool ain't they?
Why yes, yes I am. There is so much satifaction in using a hand tool. It's also nice to be able to use a dustpan and brush as a dust collection system instead of an expensive vaccum system. :)geoff
Thanks for the kind words Geoff. There is a huge amount of experience to tap here. I learn something everytime I log in. I think the most satisfying part about hand tools is being able to do a job that would require an elaborate jig, and several hours of setup and trial cuts, simply and in a fraction of the time.
Steve
Hi BBR,
I won't advise you what to get, but here's what I did. 25 years ago, when I wanted to study woodworking, as a side-bar to going to school for oil painting, I sold a painting for $150.00. This money I decided was to be spent on tools. I managed to get a Woodcraft catalog and tried to decide what to get (I had at the time very few tools, some hardware-store general tools).
Of course I wanted everything on every page, but what i ended up getting was an ECE wooden block plane (wedge adjustng) a set of four bench chisels, a Tyzack-Turner dovetail saw, a hard Arkansas stone and a Starrett 6-inch combination square. With these tools I made others (shooting board, bench hook, marking guage, dovetail square etc.).
That block plane was the only plane I used for years. I learned to use it as a smoother, and with a shooting board I jointed with it. Was it the best plane to use for these things? Nope, but it's what I had, so I learned to make it work. When I later could afford more planes I did, but that one plane sure helped me learn.
I didn't limit myself intentionally, it was purely finances, although I did enjoy the process of making do with less. So I applaud your intention, but be open minded to adding tools as they make sense, it's pretty hard to cut a 1/4-inch dado for a drawer bottom with a 1/2-inch chisel!
Best of Luck!
DavidC
It is important to me to understand the tool on the most intimate level. This is my reason for buying and using just this one plane.
BBR, Your goal says you want to understand a plane intimately, not effectively surface a board, so I'd recommend you don't get a LN. Get an old Bailey off Ebay. You'll spend probably $25. Next get a heavy plate of glass, 3/8" or so, and several sheets of 220, 400, 800, 1000, and 1500 grit wet dry sandpaper. Contrary to what a poster said, I think you should use the old cutter, as long as it is not pitted too badly. Learn to sharpen that blade so you can shave with it. It's not hard. Next completely dissasemble the plane completely, and with steel wool and WD-40, clean that beast up. Reassemble, set, and go plane that board. You will immediantly notice things that are not working quite right, but because you took the plane appart, you know how to adjust it. Try it. It's not rocket science, and if you buy a ready to run plane, you'll not get the most important part of plane use, tuning.
You'll start to see the limitations of the particular size of plane you have too. If you bought a #4, you'll notice it's hard to make a board flat as well as smooth. If you bought a #7, you'll notice that while the board can be made flat, it dosen't get really smooth easily. A bench plane won't plane end grain worth a darn either. A low angle block or jack will.
A previous poster mentioned the adaptibility of a #62, low angle jack. This is because you can get several different blades sharpened at different angles and achieve different things. He has a good point, but economically it is probably cheaper to buy several dedicated planes. The dedicated plane route also allows you to leave a plane set, and just grab another plane rather then stopping half way through a job and replacing, and readjusting a cutter.
I recommend this route of learning, as it is what I did, and it works. It's probably already been recommended, but Garret Hacks "Handplane Book" is a good reference book. So is this link, look at Patricks B&G, it is a breakdown of Stanley planes by #;
http://www.supertool.com
what to recommend depends on which way you want to go.... its been my experience that there's no one single universal plane that is all things to all boards...
one piece of advise common to every type of plane is to buy the best you can afford, get the pain over with and let the plane tell you it was the right move to make... thesedays there's too many cheap paperweights to be had that put rookies off the idea of hand planes altogether...
If you're talking about bench planes... good ones at that with a fairly easy learning curve, you could do far worse than get a #5 1/2... if you're intending to buy Lie Nielsen then buy it along with a high angle frog in addition to the standard pitch...
It's a good heavy plane... heavy enough to deal with even gnarly wood with some ease... yet it's not too heavy to use as your primary plane... far from it... it can handle rough stock with authority... will finish smooth with an ease thats bordering on obscene and a bunch more besides... all depending on how you tune the plane...
Straight outa the box, this plane is teaching you how to use it.... when you get it right, the results are rewarding... get it wrong, it'll tell you... through your hands, ears and eyes...
Starting out with a tool that's more than capable of getting the job done will go a long way towards flattening your learning curve...
Mike Wallace
Stay safe....Have fun
I had a bunch of planes recovered from sales and auctions etc. While it may be worthwhile restoring them I found it to be more hassle than it was worth, especially when considering a tool is exactly that, a tool. And if it's wood you want to work on the less time you spend playing with tools the more time you have to work with wood. I know the two go hand in hand but on the one extreme we have the tool junkies where tools become the end in themselves and at the other end of the spectrum we have the production cabinet factories that probably would rather not see a handplane in their shop much less need to use one.
I tend to be on the tool junkie side but not to the point where I can't get my work done.
What I found the most rewarding and productive in terms of learning how to use a plane and how one works was to make my own handplanes. In a sense it really does get you the most versatile collection of planes in a reasonably cost effective manner and the choice of plane irons is superior.
I called LN this morning and spoke to Ted. We talked about what I want to do. To reiterate, I have a large number of old fence boards that are in various stages of straight/not straight, rough/porcupine. My intention at this time is to learn basic joinery exclusively with 3 tools: mortice chisel, plane and saw.I intend to plane the boards with this one plane so they will be somewhat flatter and smoother. They don't have to be perfect. Ted said the #62 would be the best plane for what I want to do. He further went on to say it could conceivably be the only plane I'd ever need. However, I feel that after planing all of these boards I will have a better understanding of what a plane does and how best to use it to its utmost capabilities. I'm sure I will need or want other planes in the future.I understand the posts that suggest I buy a junker and make it work. However, I have no benchmark. This is analogous to requesting piano lessons but told get an old upright and rebuild it like a Steinway before I take lesson 1. My interest is learning joinery and wood characteristics. I will keep an eye out for junkers for all of the above tools and will spend some of my time learning tool reconstruction. In fact I found a junker Stanley backsaw hidden away on one of my shelves. This saw could not cut cheese but will give me a good project.I thank all of you for wonderful suggestions and support.
BBR
BBR,
Not junkers my friend, rather neglected iron. Thats why us old tool afficianados didn't recommend you find an old Dunlap or Shelton plane to start with.
Steve
I completely support your approach; it is logical and rational, and will work quite well. You will have a deeper understanding of the process than if you were to simply jump in with both feet. Given your goals--joinery, mostly--I'd like to point out that in time,. you will need some manner of plane that will plane into a square corner, like a shoulder plane, or L-N's rabbetting block. These will neaten your joints and allow you to fine tune them to a perfect fit.Also, a few points about the #62. A far under-discussed accessory to the #62 is the toothed blade. This will allow the plane to scrub, and while it's far slower than a true scrub plane, it causes no tearout, a serious advantage. It sharpens like any other plane iron, and takes an outrageously deep cut without tearout.Also, you will need good sharpening gear, and nothing will get you out of that. At a minimum, you will need: a flat reference, like a granite plate (WoodCraft, $30) or a piece of float glass; a 1000 grit stone and an 8000 grit stone, about $130 for both (if you want to go waterstones [someone else will have to teach about the other options--oilstones or sandpaper on your flat surface, I never used 'em]); and you'll probably want a honing jig, $11 to $50, depending on what you decide to get (the best looking one to me is Veritas' new one, looks great). In addition to keeping your tools sharp, you will use these tools to adjust the microbevel on the #62's plane iron, thereby allowing you to adjust the angle where the iron meets the wood with just a couple of strokes on a stone, something no bevel-down plane can give you. If you glue little blocks of wood to a 24" x 12" sheet of 1/4" plywood, each one at a preset distance from the front edge of the plywood, and each one square to that front edge, you have a way to instantly set your iron in the jig in a way that's repeatable and will allow quick microbevel angle changes.One last point: the #62 is a great plane, but will not teach you finer aspects of using a traditional bench plane, because they adjust and tune differently. Still, you'll get the idea, and it'll go quicker when you finally move in that direction. And, you may choose to stay bevel-up for your whole set. That is certainly doable at this stage of the game, from both L-N and Veritas.Enjoy that #62. It's a great tool, and in no way a concession; you will be thrilled, I'm sure.CharlieA human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher
a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts,
build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders,
cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure,
program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly.
Specialization is for insects.
- Robert A. Heinlein
Edited 9/12/2005 7:25 pm ET by CharlieD
I have both the LN62 and the LN164. Other than my block plane, they are the only metal bodied planes I have, but they are also the most used.
You'll enjoy the 62, but be careful, you'll find yourself planing wood, just for the pleasure of it.
Enjoy!
Just remember, your goal for those boards that you are working on IS for them to be perfect, (straight, square, flat). That is the foundation for everything else you state that you want to learn, (jointery etc.). I suggest a #7, it can do everything from smoothing, fitting drawers, rough surfacing, edge jointing. If I had only one plane it would be my L-N #7, (maybe with two irons, one square, one with a slight curve for rougher work)
Rather than use some old fence boards, which probably can't be planed without damaging the blade, go out and buy some dry pine or poplar, or some other cheap hardwood, to practice on. Most construction lumber, Douglas fir and yellow pine typically, is too coarse grained, and is usually too wet, to plane well.
Only the best stock, that would plane well, was typically chosen to make furniture. You will almost never see a knot in an antique piece that was made from hand planed stock. Lesser stock might be used for cabinet backs or drawer bottoms, but these parts were only rough planed with a lot of chatter marks and tear out. Also, stock with knots will typically warp and twist with moisture changes, making it a poor choice for furniture.
Part of learning to use a plane is judging what is capable of being planed. The perfect board is straight grained, clean, and free from knots. Dirt and paint in the wood will ruin the blade very quickly and knots can also dull or chip a blade and are very difficult to plane over. I would only keep a knot in a board if the grain around it was exceptional and the knot was going to be included in the finished piece of furniture.
In addition to learning to use a plane, you should also start to practice with a cabinet scraper, a most valuable tool for dealing with difficult grain.
John W.
Good point about the scraper John. The simplest tool in the arsenal, but not exactly the easiest to master. The results are well worth the time invested.
Steve
John,
I've cleaned up some of these boards with my Rigid planer. Once they are somewhat sized they don't look all that bad. Even built a few end tables. The main problem is the uneveness of the sizes and the usual warps, cups and twists.On the other hand, I don't think I will ruin the blade but I will have ample opportunity to learn how to resharpen and retune the plane.
B.B. The only thing I'd add is be carefull of nails, etc in recycled fence boards or any other used lumber. Don't want to nick that new plane blade whichever one you buy. Duke
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