Hi,
I am still learning about different wood types and learning quickly how they respond to machine and hand tool work. At the moment I am using hard maple on a project and finding it very challenging to plane by hand.
I am getting lots of tear out from most angles. I am using standard or low angle planes. Is this a scenario where a high angle frog is required or is this a difficult wood to plane generally? It doesn’t strike me as being highly figured. Any guidance would be welcomed.
thanks,
Greg
Replies
Have you set-up your plane? Flat bottom etc. Are you taking a very fine shaving?( It has to be much finer than you could use on pine for instance.)
I am using a well tuned LV#4 and LV jointer. I will make a point to ensure the shavings are kept fine and will keep at it. Thanks for the feedback!
Greg
A couple of other suggestions:1. Make certain that the plane iron and the chipbreaker are set up properly in relation to each other. A small adjustment here can make a world of difference. If the wood is hard, a tighter throat with the frog a bit forward will take thinner shavings: the throat, plane iron and chipbreaker have to be in synch for a good result. Else you'll be biting off large chunks of wood and tear out will be more of a problem.2. Wax the sole of the plane with non-silicon containing wax. I use a mixture of beeswax and mineral spirits, you can even use paraffin or a candle if you have one handy. You'll also notice a difference.Glaucon
If you don't think too good, then don't think too much...
Greg, I've been planing some hard maple lately, too. The others who suggested keeping your blade very sharp and taking a light cut are right on. In my (limited) experience, those considerations are more important—and easier to stay on top of—than angle of cut. The tear out I've had has been pretty small and localized on particular boards; cleaning up with a card scraper after planing seems to take care of it just fine.Have fun.
Norman
Huh, I've just started working some hard maple for the first time and been surprised at how easy the stuff is to plane. I'm taking pretty thin shavings, but it has not been difficult to find a direction to plane any given part of the board. Granted, that direction changes every few feet...
Mike
The inherent "planability" of maple (hard or soft) is pretty good. But it is true that harder woods (not just maple) often require more care during plane setup than softer woods.
On a given area of the board, if you're getting tear out no matter what direction you're planing, you need to examine your plane setup. Low vs. high angle shouldn't matter as long as the grain is reasonably straight. You need a very sharp blade (the harder the wood, the sharper the blade needs to be), and you should take a fine cut, with the mouth of the plane closed up as much as you can without clogging. If the sole of your plane isn't flat, then you're going to have trouble no matter how much you fiddle with the blade.
If you're trying to hog off a lot of material, you'll get the best results by planing across the grain, at 45-60° or so with respect to the grain direction.
-Steve
Edited 11/29/2007 12:46 pm ET by saschafer
Greg.
The plane works good on maple if the blade is sharp, and if you are taking a light cut.
If you are using a #8 jointer to flatten a warped maple board, taking a deep cut with a dull blade, you will have to push very hard :-)
Mel
Measure your output in smiles per board foot.
GWB
The posts all have good information so I thought I would add something a little different. The wood not the plane.
I just quartered a 24 inch diameter by 16 foot maple log after I found it was NOT curly enough for what I needed for in my rifle stock work. No problema.
I use straight grained maple for all my windsor chair legs. The stuff is butter. I turn it into cylinders when it is green and come back later(100 blanks) to make legs. In the process, I have boards cut that are quarter sawn. Without a long discussion its heaven with sugar maple. (see Mario Rodriguez's quarter sawn video here on FWW for a nice explanation)
Once you get your hands on some air-dried quarter sawn maple, you will go bonkers. Its just great. The applications and appearance will turn you on - gauranteed.
A fellow windsor builder said maple is just not the wood to bend. Up popped my challenge nerve. I took a straight grained piece of riven maple 3" x 3" x 48" long and put it in the steambox.
I knew I couldn't bend it by hand that thick, so I made a form to allow me to try my wild idea. I raised my car up in the air, put the piece in the form and lowered the wheel/tire down on the steamed maple. Succe$$.
Cut the bent U shaped piece into 2 solid maple arms and away I went. My friend bought the beer.
Photos:
2 combbacks, the one on the left is one piece of maple not stack laminated.
two leg styles turned from straight grained maple. just great stuff to work on the lathe
dan
Edited 12/5/2007 6:13 pm ET by danmart
Danmart
That's great. Chairs are beautiful. So too is the guitar in the background. Guild or Gibson? I have a Guild acoustic though those fretboard inlays look like Gibson to me. I had a lovely sunburst Gibson Les Paul Classic a while back which I sold. I am raised on the stratocaster so I couldn't get used to the les paul body, but again, lovely chairs. Hopefully someday I will have the money and space to own a lathe, and, the time to use it, and my Yngwie J. Malmsteen custom stratocaster which sits in a closet at the moment!
Greg
Guild or Gibson? Its a Guild D-55 I got back in 1974. I wish furniture went up in price like guitars. Back then I did a bunch of traveling between Vermont and Block Island, RI. On the way back from BI, I stopped in Westerly, RI(home of the Guild Co.) Got sucked in with their sound. They aren't Martins but they are really great production guitars. After all these years, I'm used to it and wouldn't think of giving it up. Kinda' like my funky old chisels.
dan
Guitars have a ridiculous growth curve when it comes to appreciation. The biggest score of my life was when I bought an 'old' guitar from a fisherman for $250 - that was the price he paid for the guitar back whenever he bought it. I had it cleaned up and checked out - a wine red vintage gibson ES-335 (what BB King plays) in good condition with all original hardware. I sold it for nearly $2K. Not a bad investment.
Based on the training that I'm getting from others on this site, this is what is working for me. Please bear in mind that the following is both pompous and presumptuous as all heck, since two days ago I could NOT get a shaving from my plane on maple. Period. But sharing is what this site is all about. :) (Actually, I'm being kind of sneaky - if I've made a mistake here, someone is sure to help me understand what that is, to the betterment of us all. :) )
Sharpen the blade so that it will split the atom. Then just put the finest, smallest, 20 degree micro-bevel on the back of the edge.
Polish the leading edge of the chip breaker and then set it to within a blond whisker of the edge of the blade.
Move the frog forward until you have an opening, with the blade extended, about twice as thick as the very fine shaving that you are hoping to remove. The shaving will jam the opening - back the frog up in tiny increments until the shaving stops jamming the opening.
Don't over tighten the cap lever - you want a little friction, not compression.
Make sure that the blade is square to the sole, and back it out of the field.
Using a scrubbing motion with the plane, slowly advance the blade until it is just removing the thinnest shaving imaginable.
This works for me, but you must understand that there is quantum physics involved in making a plane work - something about an uncertainty principle, or some such. I believe it.
Hope this works for you.
Mike D
Edited 12/5/2007 6:52 pm ET by Mike_D
MIke,
I have shared your pain! I too fell victim to the siren song of the hand plane (and went off the deep end buying an LV smoother, LV jointer, LV medium shoulder plane and a LN palm sized block plane as well as a low angle LV standard block plane) All have had heavy use. I have persevered in my journey with these tools enough to see beautiful results so I can fully endorse what can be accomplished with a razor sharp plane. I have also been guilty of butchering innocent pieces of good wood so I am not there yet but I akin becoming expert in handplanes to attaining your tenth degree black belt in karate. It is a long (but enjoyable and intuitive journey). Thanks for sharing your advice,
Greg
I know this is a very old thread but I thought I would add one more idea to the list of techniques and settings for good planing.
I have been working a little bit with a rock maple with a bit of figure (flame). I have found all of the recommendations really accurate about sharpness, tight throat, and not an aggressive blade prominence. I have one other method to add, if you have enough board width, you can move the plane with a slightly diagonal orientation, presenting one edge of the blade a tiny bit before the other edge. I find the planing to be less forceful, smoother and, though I have to take more strokes, because the full width of the blade isn't cutting, the shavings tend to be better behaved. I have always tended to cant the plane a little bit just because of my body geometry; it's quite a challenge to get the plane exactly aligned with the direction of cut, so small deviations have lead me to find a comfortable way using an angular offset to the plane and its motion.
That's one thing I missed out of the conversation too, 3404503, to skew the blade's approach to the wood. That's commonly done on figured wood and hard maple tends to act that way at times. I've had it chip on me easily, or split on a corner (maddening) but along with the other suggestions, skew the plane to the direction of your cutting stroke.
Use a bevel up plane. with a 30+- degree primary bevel. Then hone a 45-48 degree secondary bevel. Assuming a 12 degree bed angle you are after a cutting angle of 57-60 degrees. (Bed angle + secondary bevel angle = cutting angle on a bevel up plane. this will eliminate most if not all tear out.
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