Replies

1. 
   kennedy136 | Jan 14, 2003 12:33am | #1

   Jdg,

           Interesting thought.  I do use measured drawings when I can get my hands on them though I sometimes make minor changes.  I build mostly Queen Anne and Chippendale reproductions and as such having a measured drawing saves a lot of time scaling and transposing etc.  That said, I've also built pieces from nothing more than a photograph sometimes having the height and width, sometimes not.   I tend to agree that most of the prepared plans available are as you put it, not worthy of my time and effort, however there was a time when I  felt differently.  I suspect that when some of those who are asking for plans develop more experience they may feel as you and I do.  I also think there are those  who may be competent woodworkers, but for whatever reason just do not have the design ability to create a nice piece.  Some who have spent a lot of time laboring over a piece only to find that it is all out of proportion or has some other design flaw, even though the craftsmanship itself may be there, are understandably gunshy of building something out of their head.  Full scale drawings help but there are those who just don't know where to add or take away from a design, hence they want plans.  I don't necessarily fault them for that,  though I think that design sense is something to strive for if one does not already have it.  Some people are born with the inate ability to know what looks (or will look) good, others have to learn it.

                                              Mark

2. 
   EdHarrison | Jan 14, 2003 12:50am | #2

   JDQ,

   Interesting post. It's a wintry day in Mississippi and I have nothing more pressing to do than to allow this subject some contemplation.

   If you never used plans but once, then you, my friend, are a very talented woodworker.

   When I first started building things, adirondack chairs were something that everyone wanted. I needed some plans. I would not have been talented to simply look at a design, file it away mentally, then recreate it in the workshop. Actually, even if I had been that talented, I would not have believed it because I would not have had enough confidence in my abilities due to lack of experience.

   So, you asked for my opinion - plans are for beginners. They are bridges between the conceptualization of a project and the realization that it can actually be done. They are confidence-builders.

   Here's another example - when I built my deck, I didn't need plans because I had worked on several other decks and I had it pictured in my mind exactly how it was going to be. But the deck sits 8 1/2 feet off the ground coming off the second story of my house. So once the main deck platform was done, I had no clue as to how to build steps going down to the back yard. I got some things from the building code, like how wide the steps had to be, how the railing had to be constructed, how the rise and run had to be uniform, how many steps in a flight before you had to have a landing, etc. I sat down for several hours and drew scale plans - figured out the exact dimensions and joinery dynamics of each 2x 6 and 2 x 12. Then I built my steps, including a landing and 90 degree turn. Once I had the plans drawn out, I had confidence that yes, I could really do it. A confidence-builder, that's all it was.

   Now I'm able to build things without plans - maybe just some dimensions scrawled on a piece of scrap, or some marks on a story-stick, but when I make mistakes or feel overwhelmed by a project, I like the confidence that plans give me.

   That's my $.02 worth. Have a good day. Ed

3. 
   Jim65 | Jan 14, 2003 12:59am | #3

   Hello JDG,

   I have to agree with the professor that drawings can be helpful in understanding what makes a piece of furniture classic, which proportions go or don't go.  Like you I steal a lot of ideas from other types of furniture and even though I have actually purchased plans, I have never used them to make a piece of furniture.  I sketch my own and do cardboard mock-up to get the feel for size.   I have used plans for 2 kayaks and a wooden sailboat, where the calculation of the hull size is quite important.  I do my milling work at a friends shop near my home and they work completely to drawings.  Reproduction is important as it is a production shop with cnc tools.   As a wooden boat fan I can spend hours looking at the plans of a boat and imagine what makes her stable with a following sea or fast to the wind...  I am sure its the same looking at a set of chippendale or winsor chair plans.  It may also be the difference between those of us who make nice things for ourselves that fit our house and those who need to make chairs or tables for a living.

   Cheers

   Jim

1. 
   Petey | Jan 14, 2003 04:52am | #4

   When I first started most of the things i made were built-ins or cabinets to match existing so my plans were very simple, something to give the customer an idea of the finished product or something I could use for an accurate take-off. Then I designed and built my first piece of real furniture, solid wood, not a nail or screw in it. It was a blanket chest for my wife, a wedding present. Everyone loves it,still to this day, but after I finished it I looked at it and something just wasnt right. Working on an architects house he turned me on to the "Golden Section" and there it was. Learning good proportion can make the simplest designs great works. By the way she still loves the chest      Petey

1. 
   fdampier5 | Jan 14, 2003 05:53am | #5

   I'm worse, the only plans for my timber frame is in my head..   Let's see I need to connect this with that and it'll need a connected to it..  Maybe that's why my first dormer took me over 8 hours to frame and the last took two....

4. 
   Woodworker_Jon | Jan 14, 2003 08:22am | #6

   Hi jdg,

   I am glad to see a post that makes me think a little more philisophically than the typical woodworking discussion post.  I, like you, start with an idea and meld it into a final product (as I guess every woodworker does).  I have designed and built things from nothing more than an idea with no drawings at all and others I have designed in my head, drawn in intricate detail, built models, etc. to find myself going into the shop and building "what feels right" changing many of the design elements.  I have a little bit of distaste for bought plans (except when trying to reproduce pieces) because I feel as though I am building someone else's furniture.  For me, it is the art of design and creation of a completely unique piece that is the draw to woodworking.

   Jon

5. 
   mrles | Jan 14, 2003 09:13am | #7

   Yeah John I use plans, I draw most of them, I'm not computer literate enough to use a drafting program. I've built a few things without them but I feel more comfortable when I can look at something before I cut wood. I firmly believe in a story stick, has saved me some woe several times. I can't imagine building something from someone else's plan all the time, a big part of my enjoyment of woodworking is the concept and design.

   Man I wish I were over in your part of the country with about 5 pounds of crawfish sitting in front of me. I think maybe they might be down in their holes pitching woo making some little mudbugs right now though. I'm going to try to make it to Breaux Bridge this year for the big crawfish boil, I've never been to it. I've been to Breaux Bridge many times and have had some of the best food in the world there. There is a real famous restaurant there I can't recall the name but it has a low ceiling and people have stapled their business cards all over the ceiling. There has always been a band playing when I've been there and all the vocal in French, family place.

   Anybody that reads this and have never been to Southern Louisiana, you don't know what you have missed. The hospitality and food are wonderful.

   God Bless

   les

1. 
   jgaiennie | Jan 14, 2003 03:08pm | #8

   Gentlemen,

   Thank you for your comments.  It's a pleasure having the benefit of comments of other woodworkers.

   Les, you must mean Mulate's.  And thank you for the kind remarks on our cajun homeland.  I'm sure you've boosted our tourism.

   Yes, I do also see the need for plans in some cases, such as a reproduction piece.  I can't imagine attempting one of the fabulous secretaries featured on FWW's web page with out a pretty clear set of plans, whether it be purchased or something that I produce.  I built an armoire last year, but only after I'd spent several hours generating very detailed drawings, and can't imagine having done that rather large piece without them.  But since then I've built a gun cabinet and a wine cabinet, both similar to the armoire in construction details, and neither with a set of plans.  Sheesh!  In some cases, I've even resorted to determining finished dimensions of a piece by the the length or width of a particular board from my stock and then adusting all dimensions to follow that.  Be assured that I do this with caution and consideration for the proportions.

   Plans also are invaluable in construction of anything with any complexity and for any project where communication and coordination with others is required.  Imagine giving instructions to a framing crew for a new house without plans.  Then imagine trying to fit your furniture comfortably in a house built with no plans.  Both would obviously be easier with plans.

   I recently made a wooden model steam engine that runs on my air compressor and posted a picture of it on a model steam engine web page.  What comments did I get?  "Nice job".  "Please post the plans".  Shortly, I got over my initial shock that someone thought I had plans for this contraption, but I remain a little wounded with suspicion that this guy didn't recognize my impromtu workbench design was my own doing.

   jdg