Please Help! How to smoothen this table? :/
Hi there,
So I’m a newbie and have only just come across this wonderful forum. I had a question that I thought someone here would probably be able to best answer.
I have this table top that I got to use as my work desk at home. It’s made of solid Birch wood and is oiled with some (rather smelly) oil! I think it looks gorgeous – I love the depth and satin look of the wood.
The main sticking point for me is that the table has a rough finish to it. So if i rub my hand across it, I feel like I may end up with splinters. I hope the pics show the sort of roughness it has.
My question is, given that the wood is solid birch and it is oiled, how should I (can I?) go about making it smoother? Should I just use an orbital sander with 120-240 and 300+ grit sandpaper to smoothen it and then apply new Tung oil? Or would I need to remove the current oil first? I just want to make the surface smooth to the touch, apart from that – I hope to keep the satin finish it currently has.
Any help would be much appreciated! Thanks a bunch in advance!
Best,
A newbie woodworker 🙂
Replies
Your sanding plan is a good one. Test the finish you plan to use on the underside before you do the top to make sure it will stick to whatever oil is on there already.
The smelly oil most concerns me. Where did you get this? New or used? Any information on how it was finished?
Mineral oil is food safe and has no odor, though it will never cure. Some use vegetable or olive oil types of oils, and not only will those never cure, they go rancid and will smell. I wouldn't have that in my home.
Drying oils like linseed and tung will cure, but definitely have an odor.
I'd figure out the underlying issue before going further.
Thanks for the comments! I bought the table used; it was being used as an office table for a year or so and the guy who I got it from doesnt know which oil was used to coat it.
I dont think it is a veg or mineral oil, as it seems to be dry to the touch (no oil comes of on a cloth or my hands when rubbing). The smell is quite pungent - but not that of rancid oil, rather that of perhaps Tung. At my old apartment, the landlord had coated the wooden kitchen counters with the same oil the day before we moved in and it smelled exactly the same as this table.
My only concern is - can I just sand over it and remove the oil with the top layer of wood? Or would it need to first be removed with mineral spirits or something? The bottom side of the table isn't treated or coated at all, so cant even test this on the bottom of the table.
“[Deleted]”
If it were mine, I believe I would consider using a chemical stripper to remove the old oil before trying to sand it. I know it is a nasty job but, I'm afraid that the old oil will clog up the sandpaper and make that job frustrating and waste a lot of paper. You could try sanding first and see if or how quickly the paper clogs up.
It'll take ages to sand, especially if its oiled as the oil will clog the sandpaper for a while, so you'll be swapping out clogged for clean sanding discs until the surface film of oil is gone. Because the wood is rough, that film will be deeper than on a pre-sanded piece.
Sanding is, anyway, not so efficient if its to remove significant amounts of wood, as in taking rough-cut timber to being ensmoothenerated. (Sorry, couldn't resit the expansion of "smooth" to a proper big long word). :-)
You'd be best planing that top smooth, then - initially across the grain then gradually with the grain as the rough stuff is removed.
Given the nature of the top (many narrow planks with the grain going all which-way) you need to use a plane with a high cutting angle (say 55 - 60 degrees) and narrow mouth; or a plane with a very close-set cap iron; and a very sharp blade taking thin shavings.
Taking thin shavings will take longer than taking fat ones but you'll greatly reduce the risk of tear-out. Even taking thin shavings will take far less time to remove the rough to ensmoothenerate the top than will sanding. The first pass or three will probably remove the oiled layer. The oily shavings won't clog the blade as they would the sandpaper.
You can sand out any faint plane tracks at the very end of the process, although you may not need to if you take thin plane shavings with a slightly cambered blade.
Lataxe
Orbital sander, start with 80 grit.
Dousing it with acetone, followed by a good scrubbing with hot water and detergent might dissolve the oil remnants.
The guy who sold it to you probably sanded it and dumped on a coat of whatever finishing oil he found at the hardware store in order to make it look nice-ish.
I wouldn't bother trying to strip the finish, doing a test spot, or starting with 80 grit. You'll just be making more work for yourself.
If it were mine, I'd sand it smooth with 120, wipe on a wet coat of tung oil, wait a day, sand with 220, and add another coat of tung oil, but not as wet. Dollars to donuts, that will give you the finish you're after.
If that doesn't work, THEN you can strip it down, sand with 80, blah blah blah. I'd be pretty surprised if it was necessary though.
Wow, I'm so touched at the amount of comments and helpful advice! I'd be totally lost without you guys & gals! :)
I don't have a planer myself and dont have access to a shop that would let me use one here in Germany currently. So I'm unfortunately limited to hand/orbital sanding with the help of a generous dollop of spirits!
I think I will try sanding it down with 120 and then oil and re-sand higher grades until 220 on a small portion to see if I get the finish I want. Otherwise I guess it's time to douse with acetone and mineral spirit and take 80 grit to the top. Will need to order up some supplies and start in a week or so. I'll report back with how it goes!
Thanks again to all, proud to be a part of this awesome community and hobby! Stay safe:)
Have you not got a hand plane (or even two)? Sanding that table top from rough to smooth is going about it the hard way, really.
A hand plane will be faster and will also obviate any need for using various goos and volatiles, which are not good for a fellow working hard at the wood!
Lataxe
Many of the comments will cause you a lot of unnecessary work. I have been building and repairing furniture for many years and this is my 'go to' formula.
Using 60 grit discs, random orbit sand the entire top. Sand again with 100 grit discs. Sand the 3rd time with 220 grit. STOP!!!! Apply the finish of your choice.
Congratulations on your table. Its lovely and appears to be something you love. Fixing it will take you from "newby woodworker" to something more. Planing that thing either by hand or machine is probably outside your comfort zone at this point (or your available machinery assets). Heck - you could just run in through a wide belt sander if you had access to one big enough. All kidding aside, sanding it with a random orbit is practical and you might even enjoy it. Just follow the advise to start with low grit and work up gradually. Starting with 120 isn't the way to go here if you value your sanity. We don't want to lose you to woodworking on the first refinishing project!
I would sand it, 80 grit, and see how it goes. Can't hurt anything. Wear a respirator though.
If it seems to work, sand 120 and 220. Then apply 2 coats of dewaxed shellac before anything else. It is easily the best product for sealing problem woods, which is what you have -- not the wood itself, but from whatever was put on it.
After the shellac, you can put whatever you want on top.
Dewaxed shellac will go on top of pretty much anything, and pretty much anything will go on top of it.
You could try wet sanding with oil. I prefer Watco original. Start with 800 grit wet/dry sandpaper to remove most of the dirt. Wipe off the excess then go to 1200 grit wet/dry. The finish will vure completely with in 24 hours leaving you with a smooth, soft finish.
I've used this method on countless tabletops and never got a complaint from customers. Oh yeah, it's only fair to tell you I only work with oils so you should listen to the others as well.
Mikaol
There are many good suggestions here to solve your problem removing an apparent oil finish. Getting off topic a bit I see many suggestions for finishing things using stuff like soap. oil, wax, etc. It may look good to a woodworker who can refinish the project because they know what they put on. I try to think about long term care and maintenance and who will do this. I go with finishes that work and will free me from ongoing touch up.
Just sand it it off...
I would not suggest you try to hand plane it if you don't know what you're doing and you don't have a super sharp blade. The grain in that table is going in a hundred different directions and you would be likely to tear the grain to pieces.
Start with a more aggressive grit than 120. I'd even go down to 80 to get started. Remember you ARE trying to strip it.
Then work your way up through the grits until your satisfied with the surface (220 likely would be good). Then start adding your finish. Wipe down between coats with a high grit sandpaper or some 000 steel wool.
I'd also choose a finish that will dry quicker than tung oil. Real tung oil won't cure for a very long time. Go with a wiping varnish or a poly. Heck, even good ol shellac. Easy to work with and quick to dry.
It's true that injudicious hand planing risks tear out. But why not take the opportunity to learn how to hand plane, starting with the theory mentioned in a previous post (high cutting angle blade, tight mouth, close-set chip breaker, thin shavings and so forth) and continuing through the necessary learning-via-experience?
Because ... sanding with an RO or belt sander (or even hand sanding) are not without their own risks.
Most of those recommending sanding seem to be suggesting an RO sander, beginning with a very aggressive grit. If used injudiciously, its almost certain that this will be a recipe for making shallow craters all over that top. The leaving of swirl marks - only noticed when a finish is applied - is also a serious risk.
And, I repeat .... sanding will take far, far longer than hand planing, as the surface is rough and clogged with some sort of unknown oil, so will need significant removal of material to make smooth.
Lataxe
Learning how to use a hand plane would be a great idea sure, but not on this table top. That's a recipe for frustration and frankly, failure. I would not personally even take a hand plane to it. Those piecemeal thrown together table tops are almost always made of inferior material and have grain running in literally every direction. I would be more likely to go at it with a card scraper just to get the finish off then sand. But again, just have a look at the wood, it's going EVERYWHERE and full of knots.
I agree that sanding isn't going to create a perfectly flat surface but this isn't a project that requires a perfectly flat surface. Use the right tool for the task and the desired outcome, and in this case, sanding is the way to go.
I love to use a handplane just as much as the next guy, but that requires some basic fundamental skills, and I would recommend to anyone to learn how to use and sharpen one, but i would never recommend they try to learn on a something like this. If you don't know what you're doing, you're being set up for failure right off the start. Start with some pine taking edge shavings, then graduate to face grain. Learn grain directions, etc.
Yes sanding will likely take longer, and not it's not going to be perfectly flat. But it won't tear out, it won't lead to huge frustrations and whether or not people want to admit it, but sanding has it's place and it works, and works well especially on something like this.
Learn to use the planes, but not on this.
I wouldn't bother using a normal plane on that top either. What I might use is my Lie Nielsen low angle jack with a soothing blade. It does a great job on fast stock removal, and just disregards knots and grain direction. But it leaves a surface that's far from finished.
Not that I would expect many people to have that combination of plane and blade. But it really does excell at boards like that, work bench tops, butcher block, etc.
Exactly, I didn't bother to even mention low angle planes because while I think they're great, they're a specialty plane that's only available from a few makers, all of which are expensive for a newbie. Furthermore grinding a high angle and cambering a blade as a beginner is a big ask.
I would like a-one o' them "soothing" blades, as I do have some over-excited timber that needs calming down before I form it into a handsome cupboard or even a chair leg. Send details of how one either buys or makes one!
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Now, this reply about how a newbie should avoid plane blades because its all too hard.... .....
This begs the question: when and how should a newbie move from that initial status towards "experienced and skilled woodworker"? Is there a recognised schedule? Should it be only sanding already flat stuff for at least a year before the edge tools are allowed in the newbie hand?
Personally I believe the rule is really: try things, the sooner the better. Add that other rule: do a difficult thing as you'll learn far more a lot quicker.
A long time cranky inhabitant of this forum, one Boss Crunk, once opined that anyone can make a fantastically difficult piece to a high standard by only his or her second piece-made. It's all to do with attitude. I tried to take that lesson, as part of the fine US tradition of can-do. It does make a difference, as some of the impossible that one tries becomes possible.
Plane it. Get the right tool and knowledge to do so. Learn a lot (about planing and about wood).
Lataxe
Nice looking top. And a nice lot of approaches above, all with merit. A question... is the underside of the table similarity finished? With the same bothersome feel to the hand? If so, you may be lucky! Try out some of the ideas above on the underside and see what works best for you, and that resolves your concerns. It’s likely the feel, etc of the underside won’t bother many. The odor though... yea, that’s an issue.
Lots of good info here but the "lots" also can cause misreadings. So why not join in -
A. The rough feeling may be due to poorly/ minimally applied finish. Person doing it may have only applied a sealer coat which raised the grain making it rough.
B. To be thorough and 100%, sand the tabletop with 80gr using a random orbit sander. Don't focus on one area/ corner. Sand the whole table left to right, then up and down and the diagonally. The point is you want to do it evenly and thoroughly. Let the sander do the work. Use circular motions.
C. Sand as above, but with 100gr and then 120. If you go beyond that, you'll end up sealing the pores enough so the finish won't penetrate and cause a weak bond.
D. Apply a sealer coat of Danish Finish Oil, thinned 50%.
E. Next day, apply another coat, full strength as directed in DFO instructions.
F. Total coats to be applied - 5 - over the next 5 days.
G. Two weeks later, it's ready to be polished. That's when you can use the 800gr and 3,000gr polishing mediums. Note: The first polish/ rub-out will create a grey haze on the finish. Each subsequent polish/ rub-out with fine grit will turn the grey scratches into a uniform polished finish.
Hope this helps,
Frankie
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