Hello. I have a question concerning a project I am embarking on.
I am building a fire-truck theme bed for my 4 year old son. Much of the construction will be from 3/4 inch birch plywood. The bed will ultimately be primed and painted. There are a lot of curved surfaces which will have exposed ply layers (at the edges) and many of these surfaces will have edges treated with a roundover bit. I would ideally like to fill or cover these ply areas to provide a smooth painted surface that will not be easily distinguished from the remainder of the flat surfaces in texture.
Edge banding with iron-on edging, etc. seems impractical with all these curved and rounded over edges. I’ve considered using spackling paste, wood filler or maybe Bondo but have no experience doing it that way. It seems like that would be either quite messy or very time consuming.
Any suggestions for a relatively easy and effective way to cover these edges and create a smooth effect?
Thanks.
Rick
Replies
Hey Astro- Without knowing exactly what you are building- my first thought was MDF.
It might be suitable for the main components if you have not already purchased the birch ply.
It can not be used in all applications- Maybe ply edged with MDF -then cut the curves.
I'm flying blind here- but the damn stuff paints so darn well with a proper prime before paint.
Dave
I'd agree with the recommendation for MDF. After smearing the edges with joint compound or spackle, they paint up nicely.
If you use birch ply, I would suggest Baltic birch -- more plys, fewer voids.
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"It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."
John Wooden 1910-
I second the motion for MDF.
David Ring
http://www.touchwood.co.il/?id=1&lang=e
I'll offer an alternative if these are going to be painted. I've done this before and it worked well. I painted the edges with plain old yellow glue. Two coats. Then sanded back. They come out smooth. A wash of shellac or kilz, then paint.
Hi Rick,
I did something similar to your project when I put in closet organizers for the kids' rooms.
MDF will machine very nicely and will paint up very well. However, your son is still only 4, and 4 year olds aren't really known for being gentle on their furniture. Something you're probably already aware of.
I used baltic birch for the closet organizers. I sanded the edges with 220 grit to come up with a very smooth finish to start. I then came back in with yellow glue to fill in the voids. Sanded the fills lightly and went on to priming. After the first coat of paint, you couldn't tell it was ply on the edges. And by the second coat, it looked amazing.
I would think any of glue, bondo, wood-filler would do the trick for you. I think the key was in sanding the edges so you couldn't feel the bands.
And of course, use a high quality paint. Behr has a kitchen / bath paint (sateen finish, I think) that has something extra to help bond to the surface. Consumer Reports has consistently rated their paint well. I'd go for a glossier finish as that will have more enamel and therefore make a more durable paint.
It's all about working around the end user.... ;-)
Glen
I don't know about useing glue to size the raw edges...seems like the paint might not stick very well unless you "tooth " it real well. The MDF idea is a good one. You can size the edge with a lightweight spackling compound (we call it fluff...its the stuff that looks just like marshmallow fluff) and it will paint great but for a more durable edge, try sizing it with a wood hardener. i think minwax makes some for softwoods, i'm sure there are other brands. I've also heard of sizing with cyanocrylate glue. Where to get a pint of it at once would be a good question though, i've not done it myself.
Well, I only filled in the obvious gaps when I treated the edges on my project, I didn't use it as sizing for the entire piece. So I can't really comment on how well paint would adhere across a large, glued surface. I do believe that using a quality primer and paint are key to the end result. It may be that the additional steps I took compensated for the glue, or it could be that using the glue didn't matter.Oh, FWIW -- I used yellow glue for filling in the gaps. It was either Elmer's woodworking glue or Titebond. Or perhaps both as I may have switched back to titebond during those two projects.Glen
I'd find a flexible edge band (vinyl), just a little narrower than the panel, and round the panel to it. I have taken one too many toddlers to the hospital or doctor, from landing on something hard while "playing" in their bedroom.
Thanks everyone for the excellent ideas. Some great info there.I gave some thought to the MDF idea originally but I'm leaning away from it for several reasons. First, its darn heavy and this is going to be a big bed. Second, there are quite a few long exposed sides and I've been less than happy with the rigidity of MDF over the long haul. I'd be concerned that my 4 year old would break it or bend it, at least. The sides of the firetruck are not well supported at the top so a more durable material might be better.I love the idea of Baltic birch but have some concerns about getting large enough sheets and cost. The firetruck side is about 7 feet long and my usual sources for Baltic Birch sell it only in smaller sheets at a high price. I'll look into alternatives though since it is such nice material.Rick
Rick, Look into your local HD for baltic birch. I was pleasantly surprised to see mine carrying it in two grades. Mine also has something they're calling 'cabinet grade' 3/4 ply. Decent enough stuff at $26 / sheet.For that matter, any lumber I'm painting, I'll pick up from HD. I like the guys at the lumber yard, but there's no sense in overpaying for paint grade stock.Another poster pointed out that rounding over the edges would be a "really good idea" given the hazardous nature of kids. I'd second that suggestion, and that's also what I did with the closet organizers. Anything to cut down on sharp angles is a good thing.Glen
Another plywood with no voids is Appleply. This may not be available in your area, but another brand may be. A concern that I would have with mdf is off-gassing. All sheet goods do this to some extent, but mdf seems more likely than others. With the user of this project being a child, I'd be more concerned than normal about the health hazards involved. Non formaldahyde mdf is available, but is special order in my neighborhood and it's more expensive.
Hi Astro, I've read a few of the threads trying to sway you to MDF...think about this...a four year old then five, six jumping up and down on his bed and you know it's going to happen. I don't think the fasteners, whatever they are will add much strength to MDF joints ,plus, the edges of this material is so brittle. As for the edge treatment for your ply, try several layers of lacquer solids ( the crud at the bottom of the 5 gal. pails the larger shops use ) or even fiberglass reinforced bondo for filling in the larger voids and top the entire edge with glazing putty. Just be careful with the bondo so you don't leave to much to sand off as this filler is MUCH harder in density than your wood but the glazing putty sands nice and smooth for most paint grade projects. Sounds like one lucky kid!
I think I should shoot down this point about MDF being potentially too weak. I used to design and manufacture children's furniture made predominently from 18mm MDF using glued/dowelled construction. We assembled using fluted beech dowels and exterior grade PVA glue. The trick to designing anything in MDF is to make the joints nice and tight (i.e. accurate) and brace everything. Yes, the items are heavy so you may need to design larger pieces to break down into several sub-components, but so what? The backs of our wardrobes (armoires?) were only 9mm (3/8in) MDF, but were glued into the grooves and had 80mm (3in) wide braces at three points (top/middle/bottom) which were dowelled in place and glued to the backs as well. Avoid screws, nails, pins and metal fixings wherever possible as they can all come loose and injure the child. The sides of the beds were strengthened by adding a piece of 3 x 1in pine down each side to support the cross planks on which the mattress was laid, then using pine cross planks, several screwed in place. In four years of making I never had a single item returned which had been broken by the kids. One demo we used to give shop keepers was to dry assemble a chest of drawers using no back, and about a third of the dowels. I'd then climb atop it and bounce up and down - they didn't break. Now I may be a sickly 85kg (185lb), but I'm still heavier than the average four year old.....
The biggest downer to MDF is actually sealing the edges. You can buy MDF sealant designed for the job, but it still tends to require 3 or 4 coats, sanded between coats, to get a good smooth edge. An off the shelf alternative is spackle, but it may still nead 2 or 3 coatings sanded between coats. Unlike plywood, hower, there will be no sinking over time and there are no plies to telegraph through the finish, another unavoidable feature of plywood.
For surface finish I'd suggest priming with a high solids primer then finishing with an acrylic lacquer
Scrit
I've seen very few voids (essentially none) in the baltic birtch I get from my supply house. Any small voids can be filled with wood putty and sanded smooth. Home Depot 'birtch ply' may be very different.
Astro, Sorry I didn't see your question sooner. It sounds like I am too late with a product that would have been great for your need.
Have you ever heard of UV cured bondo? You can get it in good auto-parts stores. It is about the consistency of mayo, and is very nice and easy to smooth out. When you are happy with your application job, just take it outside into the sun for ten to 15 minutes, and it will cure.
The only negative aspects about it, is that it forms kind of a waxy, or greasy film when it cures that needs to be cleaned off before sanding, and it can only be about
1/16" thick. But it is very easy to use.
Keith,Does that UV Bondo stink to high heaven like normal Bondo?
No it is not the same smell. There is an odor, but not as bad.
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