Hi – I am about to start making my new kitchen cabinets. I am a newbie (made a few small items – table, test cabinets – things like that) and so I have some questions regarding materials.
I just found out how expensive the birch plywood is – $68 for 4x8x3/4 with one good side. And $57 for same x1/2. This was at my local lumberyard.
So – I think I will keep this wood for exposed surfaces, and use maybe a cheaper birch ply for concealed stuff. Is this okay? Or am I being a tightwad who should suck it up?
I think my local Menards might have cheaper stuff, less quality. In some ways I would prefer to buy from my local lumber yard – but $68 per sheet is heavy on the wallet! (and I need to replace my boiler this summer too!)
Rob
Replies
Use the cheap stuff sparingly. Even hidden pieces will try to warp, twist, etc and the cheap stuff doesn't resist that as well as decent plywood. Decent cabinetmakers plywood has more plys and they're made from better core stock. It costs more per sheet, but it's worth it in the long run.
I have made cabinets with good stuff and cheap stuff, the good stuff looks good now, several years later, and they still fit like they did when built. The cheap ones look like cheap ones, they look like they came from a cheap discount house and no longer look as good as they did when new. I'd spend the money and get the stuff you can rely on to stay put, and look great for a long time. You won't regret it.
Keep to one supplier if you plan to use dado and/or rabbet joints. Plywood from different sources will be ever so slightly of different thicknesses, just enough to cause joint fit issues.
I hate to rain on your parade but I would go to a real plywood dealer for this. Menards has some things that are decent but if you take the plywood home, I can guarantee that it won't be flat for long. Same with the stuff from HD. I have used both and won't even use it for storage boxes in my garage after the last ones warped within a day of cutting the parts. If you're near Milwaukee, Alpine Plywood delivers and they have the materials used by real cabinet shops (they supply several in the state). If you're not near Milwaukee, there will be a place nearby that sells the good stuff. Boehm is in the middle of the state and they also deliver.
hi -
thanks everyone. The message is loud and clear, and I'm listening!
I will suck it up and "cry once".
Kettle-Moraine Hardwoods (Hartford and down near Kenosha/Racine) sells "shop grade" plywood with a variety of veneers.The shop grade designation is because it sometimes has chipped corners, a patch of bad veneer on one side, etc. Never a problem (so far) if I didn't need both sides to be perfect, and only once or twice have I had plan around a veneer defect on one side.Good prices and they let you select which sheets you get. And they'll cut it down to more manageable sizes for a $1/cut -- a bargain given my back and workshop size.
I'd recommend using melamine for the cases with a PB core or MDF, and applying end panels if you are trying to save money. Personally, I don't care for ply on boxes, the composites give yo ua much truer product that is more stable long term.
Check with a plywood supplier and get a good brand. You could also locate a melamine-veneerpanel for the ends as well.
Hi Rob ,
Look in your local yellow pages under Hardwoods for a supplier near you . The cabinet shops buy direct from these suppliers perhaps at a wholesale level pricing but the selection and quality should be better .
IMO use the best for the finished ends and high profile areas , ask for a shop grade of the Birch or even Maple for the interior box parts . Chances are the core is similar in both , but the quality of the face veneers will be less with the shop , behind the cabinet doors and full of stuff one would never know the difference .
The 1/2" plywood I would guess will be for drawer boxes , don't use real cheap for this . Apple ply or Baltic Birch are super for drawers .
good luck dusty
I've been using 1/2" Russian Birch ply for drawers, etc. My local cabinet material supplier sells 5' x 5' sheets for around $20 each and even the "bad" side looks pretty good. For the first time ever, I'm comfortable leaving drawer edges exposed. So far, I've found almost no voids in the plys and the edges finish very nicely.
Dave,
When I first used Baltic Birch we called it Fin Ply . Standing in Finland if you look across the Baltic sea you can see Russia I am told .
At that time it was the only product I had ever held in my hand that said made in USSR .
dusty
Yeah, things sure change over time. I remember all that "duck and cover" stuff in the 50's - as though my school desk would somehow save me from a Ruskie nuke - lol.
I think one of the most shocking changes happened a few years ago. My BIL works for Boeing and used to travel extensively to China and southeast Asia. One day, he casually mentioned catching a flight from Saigon to Hanoi - as though it were just a routine commuter flight. It was, of course, but it sure shocked me! The last time I was anywhere near that part of the world flying from Saigon to Hanoi involved a high risk of getting your azz shot off - lol.
you can also use Appleply, it's a domestic sheet good and less expensive than the baltic birch and other varieties, and comes in 4x8 sheets. I use it for drawers all the time, great stuff.
So how would people rate different plys? I bought baltic birch for some jigs I made because it was recommended. But it sounds like apple might be cheaper than baltic birch, so I'm wondering if there's any reason not to use it. Or put another way, are there uses where you might prefer birch, maple, apple, etc over one another.I'm building jigs mostly right now but I need to make utility tables and some boxes soon - this is all for my shop at this point but I'd like to learn the differences for projects down the road. Thanks for any schooling anyone cares to send my way. -s
"Appleply" does not contain any apple. From their website: "ApplePly is a premium quality veneer core panel constructed from uniform laminations of solid grade 1/16" Alder and Birch. This all hardwood core produces a strong, lightweight panel with a minimum number of voids and a naturally attractive edge."
As I recall, the name came from the fact that it is a US manufactured product so the manufacturer adopted the slogan that it's "as American as Applyply".Howie.........
Appleply is cheaper than baltic birch, it's domestic vs. imported (although these days you never really know). I use it mostly for drawer boxes, but it would certainly work for jigs and such (I'm not into making "furniture jigs", I just make 'em to work well and don't really care what they are made out of). Like BB it has a clean edge that you can simply put a little round over and sand it clean for finishing, no edge banding.
Hey Rob,
I didn't see anyone mention using pre-finished maple plywood for carcasses. You'll find the material competitively priced from companies that supply commercial shops.
-Paul
I second the prefinished Maple Ply.
Having just finished my kitchen cabinets, I will never use anything but prefinished Ply for the carcasses in the future. The amount of time this will save you not having to finish the insides of your carcasses will more than make up for the expense in time. Just blue tape along your cut line prior to cutting, cut, seal edges with shellac and assemble boxes with pocket holes (for unexposed joinery).
-wes
I'd second melamine for the interior panels, not only is it a cost effective and stable material, but the white finish gives you nice reflective interiors and is overall cleaner looking.
As someone else pointed out, prefinished maple is a real timesaver, but it really depends on your design.
I'm doing exactly this project right now, so I feel your pain. I say, its your kitchen and wallet, do what you gotta do. There is nothing wrong with using less than A1 on places where no one can see. You might want to check out Taunton's book on Making Kitchen Cabinets. I'm using one, and it has everything I'll ever want to know about the subject to include installation. Good Luck.
Rob: If cost is a factor, consider making your cabinets out of MDF and painting them. There's nothing wrong with the classic look of a painted white kitchen. I have worked in some very high end cabinet shops, and MDF cabinets are the rule for any painted kitchen job. It's stable, cheap, heavy and paints beautifully. Just get yourself some good dust masks, the dust is awful to breathe. To paint the edges, fill with BIN and sand smooth. Good luck.
Bob K
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