PM model 66 $2100 VS Unisaw $1340 ???
timbrun
| Posted in Power Tools and Machinery on
I have been saving my money for a powermatic model 66, however the delta/porter cable store has a factory reconditioned unisaw with 50″ Biesemeyer, 3Hp, 2 extension wings, manuals and everything except the tableboard for $1250 plus tax. PM 66 is $2100 vs Unisaw $1340(incl tax) Is the PM66 worth the $760 difference. The unisaw is in new condition- the cabinet got scraped and had to get repainted.
Replies
I posed a question in "table saw survey" about the actual differences between brand lines. So far, no responses, but we may get some.
It seems to me all the 3 hp. machines are quite good, so I guess the question should be rephrased "Is the Powermatic worth the extra $760 to me?" If you have your heart set on a PM, then yes. If you're looking for a good saw at a good price, go with the Delta.
Jeff
I was in the same boat a couple of years ago before stumbling on a similar Unisaw deal. I love my saw and used the money saved to buy commercial duty blades and dado set. Perhaps the PM66 is a better saw but after using the Delta for some time I've decided that the cabinet level tablesaw argument is exaggerated and hyper-debated. They are all fine tools at this price range- you won't be disappointed. Jump on this deal!
I am not sure how good the PM 66 is but I know the Delta Unisaw is as good as you will ever want. I wish I had purchased one years ago. I saw the same deal you are talking about at the San Mateo wood show and thought what a deal.
Tim.
I was shocked one day when I heard the person at Woodcraft recommend the Unisaw over the PM66 to a customer who had his choice of either. The Woodcraft guy is highly respected and knowledgeable so I asked him afterward how come. He said the Unisaw came better setup, wired, etc. and the availability of parts if they were needed in the future.
Personally, it just can't matter unless your planning on running two shifts, 7 days a week. Also, at that price, what is the worst that can happen? You don't like it so you re-sell for say $1350?
BG,
I hate to be a cynic, but I'll bet there was a bigger profit margin on the Unisaw. Parts and service have been a big problem for Delta in recent years.
Jeff
I have 2 Unisaws in my shop & a PM 66 buried in my barn. I have never had any problem with service from Delta. I can not say the same for Powermatic.
Jeff
I can speak only from personsl experence I own 5 peices of Delta equipment and I haven't needed them but twice and I had no problem with them either time. I'm very pleased with them.
God Bless and Good Luck
les
On parts and service, my experience with Delta, with the exception of some items being backordered, has been nothing but excellent. I've often ordered parts for old Delta machines I'm tinkering with, and found customer service always patient and helpful. I've got less experience dealing with PM, but the one time I ordered parts, they too, came through 100 %
GC
Quality control has definitely been a problem for Delta since they merged the PC and Delta facilities. Parts and service may have been an issue, but my experience with delta is anything but. I had several problems with the magnetic switch on my unisaw, and Delta always went the distance by overnighting me a new switch assembly on 2 occasions. The tech reps I dealt with were knowledgeable and courteous, and always called me back in the timeframe they said they would. I was connected with a design engineer to talk about my ideas for redesigning the outfeed table to be more simple, and they even sent me a new one of those even though the problems were minor.
Maybe delta was blowing sunshine up my *ss, but I found there service to be top shelf without a question. This has not always been the case, but I think it's important the judge a company on what they are doing, not necessarily on what they are known for having done in the past.
PS- Whiteside and Woodpeckers also have great customer support.
Glad to hear that they gave you good service. My experience with them over the past several months has been quite the opposite. Jet, on the other hand, has been excellent. That's why when I bought my new cabinet saw I didn't even look at anything other than Jet and Powermatic. Guess we tend to stick with the folks who take care of us. (Any manufacturers listening out there???)
Jeff
Jeff,
I've never had any major problems with Delta, but when I've needed to call the worst problem I've encountered is a long time on hold. I do appreciate that they do not use one of systems of pushing the various buttons to get where you need to get. The phone is answered by a person. PC, that's another story, and one that can only get better.
Don
I've heard that Jet is really strong on customer support, I think their engineering and design work is really starting to lead the midmarket pack of manufacturers. I'm hoping that Pentair responds by breaking away from traditional design evolution in their power tools and machinery lines... but this company has had a lot of problems with their reorganization attempt, so they may in fact trail Jet in this area for some time.
Think of what you could use that $760 on.
Edited 11/22/2002 1:03:56 AM ET by jase
That's over $2000. 00 value of saw. I own a Delta Unisaw and I can't imagine any thing being better, maybe as good but not any better.
There is an ad in Woodshop News Dec 2002 page T3 for TigerStop an add on unit for a TS. A company named California Kitchen Cabinet Door has a picture of their shop and the caption reads "we like the TigerStop so much we bought 30 of them. I can count 10 Deltas I don't see a PM anywhere.
I would go for the Delta.
God Bless and Good Luck
Whoever says a PM is better than a Unisaw is mistaken. I have a 66 and only bought it because it was the only left tilt at the time besides craftsman. Delta service is still pretty darned good considering how many Delta units are sold. As a former service tech for a dealer that sold Delta, Jet, Minimax and a few other brands Delta provided the best warranty and service compared to most. When Delta regrouped there was a bit of a slowdown but I've had a few dealings with them lately and got calls returned within the hour. If I was to be shopping for a saw today I would go with European slider if I had the room but other wise there isn't enough difference between a Jet, Unisaw or PM in quality in my opinion. One can't look a a piece of furniture and say...they must have used a PM to make that chair. The machine is a small part of the equation...it's the operator that's most important. Go for the better deal is my opinion...you won't regret it.
I have the PM 66 and here's why. My son works in a shop with both the Delta and the PM and I visit him often. I've noticed the Delta is frequently standing idle while there may be one or two guys using the PM. I asked why and was told everybody prefers to use the PM. Mine was shipped to me from out of state and I had no difficulty assembling it. I like its "feel" better than the Delta -- smoother and heftier and some people have said it's got a better trunion and motor. I doubt if there's a real technical difference, but I sure do like my PM after five years don't even remember the additional cost. I think the difference is most likely similar to a preference in cars -- they'll all get you there, but some of 'em just "feel" better.
I'm with you. You make a setup and it stays put.
on North American saws, the only saws id consider buying are General and PM. As far as the trunion on a PM vs Unisaw there is night and day difference.
On a side note, i see many more Unisaws factory reconditioned then i do PMs and even Jet. That outta say something... Only Dewalt leads in factory reconditioned tools IMO.
A bit off the subject but is interesting how most manufacturers really made their name with just tool or machine. Pm was jointers, RockwellDelta table saws, Milwaukee power drills, Skill the Skill Saw, PC belt sanders, I think B&D was routers, Rigid plumbing and pipe fitting, Dewalt RAS. Any corrections here, or anyone know of any others?
Don
Don,
BD = hammer drills.....Greenlee = electrical tools
Don, I think that depends. Powermatic has been in business since WWI and has made a lot of farm machines as well as metalworking and woodworking machines. They make their own castings using a patented process for their domestic lines. I've been through their factory and have seen some incredible monsters that I don't even know what they're for. In fact, I'd guess the woodworking equipment is only a fraction of their output, and fairly recent in terms of their overall business. A vice president told me the company was started by a guy who was basically a really talented blacksmith. The PM "Atisan" line is their Taiwanese line, very similar to the Jet and certain others. In fact, some of the tools, like the 15-inch planer, are identical in most respects and come from the same factory. Delta, on the other hand, has been a corporate football with quite a few owners and lines. My first jointer was a Rockwell, later called a Delta. Their radial arm saw, which is among the best IMO, was one of the first and made for commercial applications. PM has had several owners, too, but the factory has remained the same. Delta, as I'm told, does a lot of out-sourcing and shopping around for price advantage on their low-end products. I just looked at some of their larger macines and they are top-notch, but you won't find them in home shops.
I don't disagree with you, but from what I've read about the history of PM, the owner got into woodworking machines by making jointers, and the product line grew from there. Same with Porter Cable and the belt sanders. That's all they made when they started. My post was more about the evolution of companies from their roots. Translate that to a current company and Freud comes to mind. First the blades, then bits, and now they are developing tool lines. The same may hold true for the Saw Stop company. They are coming out with a cabinet saw, but in 20 years we may be able to outfit a whole shop with machines that have this safty feature. It's a pretty dynamic trade or hobby we are involved in and it's interesting to see how things change and develop. That's all I was getting at.
Don
Delta started life in 1919 as the Delta Specialty Company, and was bought by Rockwell in 1945, though it was still called Delta. I'm not sure when the Delta name was completely dropped, and the Rockwell "peace sign" logo instituted (70's, I think), but Pentair bought them in 1984, after buying the hand tools unit (Porter-Cable) in 1981. Delta bought the radial saw line from Red Star (Red Star Multiplex) in 1952. A lot of their good stuff (Unisaw, HD Shaper, 12-20" RAS's) is virtually unchanged since the beginning. There are several web sites describing Delta's history, including their own. Just thought you'd find it interesting.Be seeing you...
Company histories are really interesting, aren't they? Sometimes it's hard to tell whom you're dealing with, and a lot of times it doesn't matter. For some reason we all seem to afix value to a brand without really knowing why. Could it be advertising? Anyhow, I'm really happy with my PM 66 and most of my buddies agree with the decision. I've added a set of outfeed rollers (HTC brand) and a work table to the left side at saw table height ,making the effective table area pretty big. I also have an overarm dust pickup/blade guard whish is a pain in the arse when ripping small stuff, but I do keep the splitter installed most of the time. Although I have a dedicated shop with plenty of room for normal operations, I have the PM 66 on rollers so I can move it if I need to rip long boards.
I bought the saw. It is in brand new condition. Everything was still in the box except the main cabinet. Not bad for $1338. Also, I was able to get the mobile base for $145 (amazon has it for $180). I'm going to set it up tomorrow.
Timburn,
Congratulations ! You made a good decision.
However, here is the down side. You'll never get to experience the true bonding that happens when you have to remove cosmolene from a new saw. Yes Tim, spending a couple hours applying solvents and steel wool makes you forget tollerances, features, runnout and all those esoteric concerns. It kinda like changing the baby's diaper, who cares how many fingers or toes they got.
Only the cosmolene experience can insure TS love. The fear of having to do it again with a new saw makes you a devotee of your saw, your brand.
In case your wondering Tim, Grizzly has the most loyal customers of all TS users...and guess who puts the most cosmolene on their new saws?
So if you start wondering if you made the right decision, or long for a splash of mustered color in your workshop, just go get some cosmolene(it's in a town next to hell) and splash it on your table. It'll sure cure what ales ya fast.....
Edited 11/23/2002 3:23:31 PM ET by BG
Powermatic was first known for their planers.
That could be. The information I had came from PM web site under "history." The company has been through some ownership changes and this info could have easily been changed along the way. The premise is still there though. They started with one machine rather then a complete line of machines.
Don
Where did you get your info? I read the history article listed at http://www.oldwwmachine.com It looks like the one I submitted a while back.
Dave,
After reading your article I think it is what I orginally read and got confused (old timers disease?) on what machine was made first. Sorry.
Don
Hey, no apology needed, I was wondering if you had a source I missed.
Dave
I did a deal similar to that when I got my Unisaw, and I haven't looked back. If it were me, I'd take the difference and put it toward a good 15" planer, 8" jointer, overarm blade guard, whatever. I have nothing against the PM66, but for what I do and how I work, it would have been [lot's of] wasted money. Replace the aluminum hand wheels with cast iron units for a more solid feel, if you like.
Be seeing you...
In early August I bought a new PM66. I love it!!!! Of course I did some agonizing and reading about many saw's out there.For me it boiled down to the PM66 or Delta uni saw. I was determined to compare them side by side, so I went to WILKE machine in York Pa. Both are excelent saw's but as for fit and finnish (polished cast iron top). The PM66 was the better choice. It is without a doubt one well built, rugged machine.It is extreamly accurate and will last several life times. I myself prefer top quality tolls that I only have to buy once,you get what you pay for.One other thing I would reccomend, a Forrest ww2 saw blade.Best blade I've ever used.The PM66 and the ww2 are a great combination together....
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