I purchased a Powermatic pm 2000 i do like the safety features, the dust collection and the ability to move the saw when i need to. But the one feature i do not like is that the saw blade continues to rotate to long after the saw is turned off.
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Replies
I also have the PM2000 and the blade coast-down takes a little getting used to. That's what happens when you get really good bearings and a super-smooth drive system that doesn't have a bunch of drag in it. The poly V-belt is another contributor to the reduced drag. That extended spin-down time is what other machines wold do if they could get rid of some of the built-in drag and friction.
It didn't take me long to get used to the extra spin-down time. Every saw I owned over the years had some characteristic I needed to get used to. All in all, this free-spinning deal is a good one to have to learn to deal with!
Tom Hintz
Because there is always more to learn!
TH:If you have removed the splitter and the crown guard, how can a spinning (albeit decelerating) naked blade be anything other than an accident waiting to happen? There's a tendency to feel that once the cut is over the whole process is over. It is not over and safe until the blade comes to rest. To have to remember to count: one Mississippi; two Mississippi is hardly a fail-safe procedure!Again the euro saws have separate braking mechanisms so the blade stops almost immediately, i.e., in less than a second.Regards,Hastings
I have learned not to reach into the blade, powered or not, without looking. It's kind of like never assumming a gun is unloaded, the wife really does understand my leering at Heather Locklear or that London cabbies are watching for pedestarians.
Tom Hintz
Because there is always more to learn!
Edited 7/22/2007 6:44 pm ET by THintz
Of course ya could always lower the blade below table height.
Chris.
Yes, lowering the blade is the best alternative, but i just wonder how the people at Powermatic missed what is very obvious to me. I do think it is still a great saw.
Probably a cost cutting thing(?).
Chris
THintz,
Sorry to "brake" your bubble,but other machine motors stop sooner, not because they have bad belts ,bearings or unwanted friction, it's because they have a braking system built into the motor, which makes it safer. It seems kind of ironic that Powermatic would put on a riving knife to increase safety and then take out their braking type motors that reduce safety. Ahh... once again the almighty profit rules over safety. And we were all so impressed with the new riving knife addition. Go figure!
Danny
Morning Woodenhead..
As TH has mentioned, spin-down is not all that bad and a saw could have worst characteristics. Use the time wisely... take a short nap or repeat your wife's birthday, your anniversary or any other special dates you better remember or else till you have them memorized. ha.. ha...
But whatever you do till it stops rotating.... what you don't need to do is get impatient and cross the lane while it is still spinning if stock is still on the table. Keep the Lane Clear.. Always Keep the Lane Clear!
Regards...
Sarge.. john thompson
Evening woodenhead! Oh sorry, that's Sarges' greeting. Anyway, not to brake your bubbly, but it sounds like the new PM2000's don't have the brake type motor's like my older Powermatic 66. Mine stops within a few seconds. This must have been one of the thing's they left off the PM2000 to make it cost less. Another thing they left off is the stainless steel slides on their saw fence rails. Your going to find out that the material they put on the top and front side of their fence rails will peel off or wear out fairly quickly.Previously they only sold the 66's with a Beisemeyer fence, which is better built. I've had mine for almost 20 years and it's still as good as the day I bought it. Some years back they went to their own make which is a close copy of the Beisemeyer. Now I see that they've cheapened the rails on their new 2000 and left out a braking motor. After all they couldn't put on a riving knife and wheels and keep those other quality items on their and still sell it for less than their model 66, unless of course they had it manufactured in Taiwan, which is exactly what they did. That's why the 66 cost's more,and not that the 2000 is a bad saw, but in my opinion the 66 is still a better saw than the 2000 and it's still made in America. Danny
Edited 7/23/2007 1:55 pm ET by brownman
Edited 7/23/2007 1:56 pm ET by brownman
Just a thought but is it possible that the switch got wired incorrectly? I have seen a few motors that coasted down rather than braking due to failed or incorrectly wired switches. Have you called PM to ask if this is normal behavior for this saw?
------------------------------------
It would indeed be a tragedy if the history of the human race proved to be nothing more than the story of an ape playing with a box of matches on a petrol dump. ~David Ormsby Gore
The PM2000 has a fuoll magnetic switch and like all of those, is totally open when the OFF button is hit.
What the PM2000 doesn't have is v-belts and pulleys that have all kinds of drag on the sides as the belt runs into and out of the pulley. The Poly-V belt the PM2000 uses has virtually none of that drag, or heat buildup for that matter.Tom Hintz
Because there is always more to learn!
I also have a PM2000 and noticed how long it took to spin down after I hit the switch. After reading this thread, I called powermatic and asked them about it. The motor in fact does not have a brake. Considering what I was using before, I'm pretty sure I'll get over it. Other than having to wait for a whole 10 seconds for the blade to stop spinning The saw is solid. If I could figure out how to post a picture here I'd show you what my problem with the saw is.
Edited 7/24/2007 9:17 pm ET by Soetermans
We have a SawStop saw and it also takes several long seconds to coast to a stop. I found that it took a week or two to get used to the fact that the blade needed a little extra time to spin down, but it became second nature after awhile.
If I'm impatient I just take the corner of the stock or the cut off and press it against the side of the blade and brake it to a stop that way.
John White, Shop Manager, Fine Woodworking Magazine
John, I hadn't thought about that. I just wait for the blade to spin down. Since my last post, the "attach files" button has apeared on the posting screen. Attached are the pics that show the biggest problem I've had with my saw. I sent them to Powermatic as well.
I hope they're thoroughly embarassed and at least send you a free blade or something. It's good for a laugh, but I didn't pay good bucks for the saw. Thanks for the photo.
John W.
Well, I think it is rather ironic since they are waving the quality banner with that whole "Gold Standard" statement on the name plate. It certainly won't affect the performance of the saw, but it is good for a laugh. I've spoken to powermatic twice about the saw since I set it up and I menteioned the name plate to them. They seemed disturbed by the fact thtat it was upside down but that was about it. The last person I spoke to asked me to send them a picture and said "i'll send you something for it". I figure I'm in for a powermatic hat. We'll see how it plays out. If they send me a hat, I'm tempted to put it on upside down and sit next to the saw so my wife can shoot a new pic. I'll send that one to powermatic as well.
Soetermans,
Perfect!
Regards,
Bob @ Kidderville Acres
P.S. What model is the Grizz dust sucker? How do you like it?
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Edited 7/25/2007 8:38 am ET by KiddervilleAcres
Edited 7/25/2007 8:38 am ET by KiddervilleAcres
Bob:
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The dust sucker is a Grizzly 1030. It works great. The reason I chose that particular model was the CFM rating. It is rated at 2300CFM which is quite high. Now I am aware that manufacturers test and rate these devices at the inlet with no load so I know I’m not getting 2300 CFM at the end of the hose, but it pulls dust quite nicely. Limitations in air flow have more to do with hose diameters than dust collector power but if the dust collector can get me equal flow through two hoses, then maybe I’ll just be able to collect greater amounts of dust by porting machines at multiple locations. The inlet is configured such that it can be connected to three machines simultaneously, but I only use it on one machine at a time. I am considering adding a second dust collection port to the PM2000 as some dust gets by the internal shroud and collects in the cabinet, but I haven’t determined the best location, size etc. I’ve done relatively little sweeping in the shop since I’ve had the equipment set up and running so I consider the dust collector a huge plus.
Didn't mean to hijack your discussion; just looking at DC options. Thanks for the inputs.
Who knows maybe they'll get the insignia on the cap upside down!
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Hold out for the semi-truck. My Woodcraft was dirty with them during a recent sale.
Soetermans,
Great photo.
It shows what is wrong with your saw.
It is obvious to me that your saw is upside down.
If you just turn it over, the sign will be in the correct position.
After you have spent a long time woodworking, you have an easy time coming up with solutions like mine.
:-)
Have fun. Great photo. Thanks for posting it.
MelMeasure your output in smiles per board foot.
Morning Soetermans...
If I am not mistaken, the PM comes from the same plant that does the pin-ball machines. Possibly one of the guys from the pin-ball assembly line was filling in the day your saw went down the line?
The good news is if your table ever gets un-level, there may be bells.. whistles and lights that trigger and flash.. Tilt.. Tilt.. Tilt...
I think I would leave it alone as you may have a "classic" before it ever reaches the age you are eligible for the Antique Tag. :>)
Regards...
Sarge.. john thompson
Most saw motors don't have brakes. I have been finding them more often on European saws such as Paolini, Maggi, etc and some older Dewalt radial arm saws.
If you really want a brake you can add one of you are willing to pay the price. Used to put these on a lot of saws in schools. Setting the brake too fast will cause the arbor nut to spin loose.
http://www.saldet.com/brake-pak.html
Thought I'd add my$.02 worth - just in case any Powermatic reps are looking. I mentioned the length of time for the blade to stop to the regional manager and he off handed said yeah, but a blade brake would up the cost and it was a tradeoff. My thoughts were that if I'm going to spend the $2K + for a saw, a few more dollars for a feature which would make it more user friendly and safer to use wouldn't be noticed.
Also just replaced the dust hose from the blade shroud to the port. When I had the side door opened to clean noticed there was a split in the hose where the bend was below the blade shroud. In the process noticed another aggrivating feature. The screw holding the bottom of the blade shroud is a T25 and the one in the side is a T30. Why couldn't they make them the same size ? - especially since the screw in the side can't be seen and you have to work by feel. You think they've ever heard of "user friendly."
Also, when I got the saw I used solvent to clean the grease off all the adjsuting gears and soaked them down with dry lube - I never liked the grease/sawdust combo & wondered why saw manufacturers haven't come up with a better solution. After about 8 mos use, gears work smoothly and I can clean w/ air hose.
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