Replies

1. 
   Bepperb | Dec 14, 2005 10:24pm | #1

   I think it depends, some people use them along with biscuits, in which case they reduce the need to clamp but in the end they don't provide most of the strength, the biscuits do.  If used alone I could see problems, but have never experienced any myself.  I have the Kreg rocket which set me back about 50 bucks, which was well worth it even considering how seldom I have used it.

2. 
   mcain | Dec 15, 2005 12:26am | #2

   I teach cabinetmaking classes here in the Northeast and we utilize the Kreg Jig in our classes.  The pocket screw alone can give you a satisfactory joint on a face frame, but on the carcase, we utilize the pocket screw along with glue for a solid joint.  The screw, in this case, acts more like a clamp than anything else.  It makes assembly both fast and accurate and coupled with the glue, strong...we build everything from bookcases to roll around shop cabinets to kitchen cabinets , all pretty much with the same techniques...we use a lot of these cabinets in the school and they get used much harder than in the typical home...never had a problem with any joinery...

   FWIW...

1. 
   pretender | Dec 15, 2005 01:19am | #3

   appreciate the imput....I couldn't remember when I posted this thread the name of the system he uses, however, as soon as i saw ''Kreg'' I remembered that was it...I don't know if it was the Kreg Rocket or another model; I do know he said it ran around $120 and that it came with a jig. That was some time ago, perhaps they were more expensive then...Thanks again,,,Pretender

   Edited 12/14/2005 5:21 pm ET by pretender

1. 
   mcain | Dec 15, 2005 03:49pm | #6

   Actually the "new and improved" version is their K3, which has some nifty features, but if you can get its predecessor, and the Right Angle Clamp, your golden for about $135

1. 
   John_D | Dec 15, 2005 10:42pm | #7

   If you're a Rockler customer, you might have gotten a 25% off coupon from 'em.  I used one to get a K3 Master System for $112.50.  I'm using it to put some maple shop ply together for a one-drawer dryer stand.  (Got the idea because someone here was mentioning they did one -- thanks!)

   The K3 is a very handy jig, and easy to get up to speed on.My goal is for my work to outlast me.  Expect my joinery to get simpler as time goes by.

1. 
   IdahoDon | Dec 18, 2005 08:39am | #8

   I'm a finish carp and recently started building a number of things with pocket screws instead of biscuits and it has been a real time saver.  I'm suspect of building face frames without glue since it's not difficult to have joint movement with hand pressure.

   The model that is often reffered to by other finish carps is the $50 pocket rocket (two hole basic model) combined with the bench clamp (10" square steel 1/4" thick with vice-grip type clamp in the middle.  Being able to firmly clamp the two pieces to be joined quickly and securely makes the $50 plate well worth the price.  We're typically not concerned about dust collection, so the basic model works well for our application.

   Happy holidays,

   Don

2. 
   DonC | Dec 15, 2005 06:00am | #4

   Your method has end grain glued to long grain. Most texts will say this yields a weak joint. I know from experience that this is true. Yet, you have had success with your method of screws and glue. Here is an additional tip.... This info comes directly from the yellow glue manufacturers. Apply a thin layer of glue , be sure it's thin,  to the end grain, let it dry and seal the pores, later apply glue to mating pieces and join for drying. The result will be signifigantly stronger. this process is called "glue sizing". If you would like to leran more about sizing for other applications of glue sizing benefits, do a search on this and other sites. Google will also yield a wealth of info.

   Users of MDF/particle board  really benefit from glue sizing. This is standard practice in manufacturing processes. Routed fuzzy edges of MDF can be made "smooth paint ready" with glue sizing too.

   Don

1. 
   mcain | Dec 15, 2005 03:47pm | #5

   Hi DonC...

   In the case of the face frames, there is no glue - just the Pocket screws provide sufficient strength (See the article in American Woodworker this month on their Anvil Test for Joints - the Pocket screw in this type of joint did quite well).  On the carcase, we do use dadoes and rabbets with glue, and Pocket screws, again for clamping pressure more than anything else.  Stretchers on the top of the carcase are attached at the sides with pocket screws.  So in this case, we've got all the end grain to long grain joints covered...

3. 
   mudman | Dec 18, 2005 09:01am | #9

   The diference in strength is a non-issue for built in stuff. Pocket screws are faster for small jobs. But if you are doing a whole kitchen, Dado/Rabit joinery is faster. I probably take an extra 30 minutes in the set up time on the Dado blade compaired to pocket screws, but then I can machine the panels as fast as I can pick then up and move them across the saw. Then the glue up is a lot faster as well; every thing automaticly lines up. With pocket screws you have to fuss with getting the edges flush then secure then that way. It is easy to accidently be off a 1/32 or even 1/16. That exceeds the tolerances of a lot of hardware. There are siple ways to prevent that from hapening but it adds another step in a "need three hands" operation. Again if you Dado/Rabit joinery is accurate then all the parts will fit perfect with no though to allignment during the glue up.

   When you installed HD's cabinets did you glue everything and clamp it up?

   Mike

4. 
   JeffHeath | Dec 21, 2005 05:22am | #10

   pretender

   I didn't read all the posts, so if this is redundant, I apologize.  I've been using the Kreg jig system for about 5 years now, and it's great.  I still glue everything, but the pocket screws make everything go at least twice as fast.  You can fill the pocket screw holes with same species plugs to hide, or different species plugs for effect. 

   I've never had a cabinet built this way come apart.

   Merry Christmas,

   Jeff

5. 
   polarsea1 | Dec 22, 2005 09:09am | #11

   The pocket hole jig turns face frames into childs play and puts an end to clamping up the boxes; the screws hold everything in place until it sets up. If you want to see something interesting get Marc Sommerfeld's: 'Cabinetmaking Made Easy' DVD. It's an infomercial about his T&G router set and pocket hole jig but it's worth the 10 bucks just to see how the system works. 

   http://www.sommerfeldtools.com/specials.asp

   
   

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   Edited 12/22/2005 1:10 am by polarsea1