Pocket screws vs biscuits for kitchen cabinets
user-7094555
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I’m sure the question has been asked before, but which do you prefer for kitchen cabinet case assembly—pocket screws or biscuits?
Replies
For what parts, exactly?
For the cabinet carcase
I've been down this road before - Pocket screws placed strategically are quite good for a kitchen cabinet application. I had a bit of a time wrapping my head around it initially but I was instructed to do so by my boss, so I did.
What can I say, I'm a believer. Quick, easy and given the minimal stresses that kitchen cabinets undergo which is mostly on the sides and bottom of the carcase I believe it's more than adequate.
A thin bead of titebond along the edges...bar clamp to help keep the sides flush with the end, and screw away.
There are lots of parts to the carcase...
The whole thing. Sides to bottom, back nailer to sides (or top), etc.
Pocket screws don't require near as many clamps. It may reduce the cost somewhat.
Nearly apples and oranges to me. Biscuits provide alignment for gluing and clamping . . . and waiting. Pocket screws allow you to move on as you use them in most cases but, require a good method of alignment.
Recently had my kitchen island replaced. Cabinet guys did a great, high quality job. I watched them install and saw pocket screws everywhere. No way these guys used biscuits, glue and the delays glueing causes. Go with pocket screws. A kitchen cabinet has virtually no stresses, other than the weight of the granite counter top on it. This is a no-brainer.
Both?
A couple of biscuits align the pieces while pocket hole screws eliminate the need for keeping it in clamps.
No way I would use pocket screws or biscuits to attach a bottom to a cabinet side. It really needs to be in a dado.
Pocket screws are ok for a back nailer. I wouldn't use biscuits anywhere. Or for anything, really.
The only thing I ever use pocket screws for is a face frame. The face frame ends up attached to the cabinet itself, so the joint strength doesn't matter as much. But that's really the only time I use pocket screws, anywhere. There are just better joinery choices for everything else.
Just screw them together straight in from the sides. Can someone tell me what is the aversion to screwing cab boxes together with butt joints from the sides? The only thing you have to address are end panels.
Dados and rabbets are alignment aids they add zero strength to a cab screwed together properly. To each his own, but for me its a waste of time & is just one more thing to make a measuring mistake about. That said, I know of one commercial cabinet shop that dados and rabbets everything they say it makes assembly faster and more accurate.
Re: the island, I don't know why any professional cabinetmaker would use pocket screws to built a cab box. Drilling holes and aggravation of clamping & alignment are huge, unnecessary time wasters.
On your island, again end panels could have been used attached with screws from the inside. I've done it like that many, many times and it works out very well.
Sorry, but I would never have the bottom of a kitchen cabinet held only by screws. A dado for the bottom adds a LOT of strength.
If you’re not building integrated toe kicks, I don’t think dadoes work there unless you want to dado an inch up from the bottom (leaving a lip at the bottom the case to be attached to the level boxes on the ground).
Yes. Bottoms are always about 4 inches off the floor. In that case, it's really a shelf. And shelves in dados are always stronger tgan a shelf simply screwed to the side. There is a mountain of statistics for this.
Or, you can build a platform the full size of your layout , with the "shelf" on top, and then build the rest of the cabinets on top of the base.
Makes sense to me. If the bottom is screwed to the sides and then screwed to a base, that should be pretty solid since you now have something supporting from the bottom. Otherwise, I can see how the dado adds strength.
A couple things... in my opinion...
Standard Biscuits do not add strength; they help with alignment; and, in my mind aren't worth the time to get them done.
Pocket Screws add some strength, but serve more to hold the joint in-place while the glue dries. Pocket Screws are best used when there is compression forces along the joint, not shear forces. Similar to standard Biscuits they're fast, but also visible in the finished work. Personally, I gave up on them years ago... along with standard biscuits.
Within a production/commercial operation, either of these are commonplace because they get the assembly done and out the door. In a place that wants to deliver work that will last through wood movement and daily-use, they'll uses either a dado or a mortise & tenon (floating or integral) construction technique.
"Sorry, but I would never have the bottom of a kitchen cabinet held only by screws. A dado for the bottom adds a LOT of strength."
Tell that to Danny Proulx.
Reality based, I've been building them with butt joints & screws for 30 years and 2 cabinets shops I've worked in the same way. And that's with levelers, no base for support - and with granite tops.....
Besides that, its a moot point most base units are drawers now anyway. Uppers are never going to have that much weight 12" deep.
I believe the saying is "If you ask 10 cabinetmakers how to build a cabinet, you will get 11 answers."
Personally, I use dadoes to align everything and so the glue has something to grab onto (90% of my carcasses are prefinished maple), and then screw through the outside. My finished end panels are applied after that mitered to the faceframe. Pocket screws are used to attach face frame to carcass. Both those pocket screws and the screws through the dadoes only exist to hold things together while the glue dries. I'm a one man operation so the ease of assembly with dadoes makes up the time spent cutting them.
But again, there's no right answer.
“[Deleted]”
I build furniture and cabinetry professionally and have tried different methods including pocket screws, biscuits, dowels, dominoes, splines, dadoes, and butt joints...
Pocket screws are super strong, but I have had way too many shift on me when tightening them so I mainly use them for attaching face frames and if needed for attaching nailers or other back panels that aren't accessible from the sides.
I have switched to butt joints and screws. BUT it is important how you make them... On lowers, I always make the vertical pieces rest on the horizontals and run the screws vertically from top and bottom so that screws are basically keeping the sides from sliding side to side. On uppers I switch that and have never had a problem. If you are worried, add some biscuits or dominoes. I also predrill for every screw 3/8" in from the edges so that they are going into the center thick wood of the 3/4" plywood. Countersink on both sides - one so that the screw head is below the surface, other side so that when the other surface "mushrooms" up it doesn't affect the joint. I have found these Spax screws at HD to be a great option: "#8 x 1-3/4 in. T-Star Plus Drive Partial Thread Zinc Coated Medium Density Fiberboard (MDF) Screw" - designed for MDF, thin enough to never split the plywood. Using them now for years.
With everything predrilled, I clamp the whole cabinet together and use a large plywood square that I can clamp on one corner for alignment before driving the screws. Use a "spacer" board to keep dividers perfectly parallel for middle dividers - also a good time to consider biscuits or dominoes for alignment. Perfectly parallel especially important for drawers to keep them sliding smoothly!
Good luck!!
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