I’m trying to see if my obstacles of improving the workshop are the same ones everybody else has. It seems that the Number #1 and Number #2 things about workshop improvement are the topics of making it more efficient and making it BIGGER….
My question is if you could enlarge your workshop on your current household budget, and you could get the materials for pennies on the dollar:
1. Who would do the work?
2. Based on your amount of spare time and household budget, what would you do to make it more efficient and how much space would you add?
Thanks for your experience and answers,
Bill
Replies
Bill,
If I could afford it, I would pay someone to help me do the work. It turns out that other people sometimes have good ideas on how to do things. ;) However, with my current budget, I would do it myself and maybe inlist some friends to help where I needed it. As fas a how much space, I think you should make it as big as you can afford with lots of windows (if possible). No one ever complains about having too much space.
Efficiency is a tough call. Different people have different answers and needs. I am not sure how to make it more efficent, and I do not know if that is even an issue for me. I am a hobbyist working in my basement. Space is an issue, but as the weather turns colder, so is heating. I would probably place that on my priority list as tops right now.
I'm in the process of doing it right now. I am moving from 25 x 25 where I work daily to 40 x 60 with a 20 x 60, 10' high "attic" over half of it. I work alone and all this space will be for me. We just bought a 12 acre hayfield in a rural area for my shop and then eventually we'll be building a house there as well. I have stakes in the ground but I'll have to wait until spring to begin breaking ground. I am doing all the work my self and I am hoping to collect on some IOU's for some extra muscle. I am blocking out a couple of months in my shop schedule to build and then move and setup the shop. I have learned the hard way that what isn't done in the shop before starting to work in it won't get done for a long time.
The biggest reason for so much space is that I can get a flow to my work. I will have a dedicated wood storage room, then the lumber and sheet goods will move in to a machining area and then to assembly. After assembly it can be prep'ed for finish then moved into a "clean" finishing room with a spray booth. Then final assembly and back into the storage area to load up and off to the customer. The biggest time waster in my shop is that I currently do to all operations in the one space so I have to set things up and tear down when moving from one operation to another. I hope by moving the project around the shop circle it will be much more efficient.
DO not forget a BIG door so that 18 wheeler can back in to pick up all the new work you get with the efficient Operation...
There's an overhead door going in but not that BIG! No matter how big or nice the shop, I'm still only one guy and that's the way I like it! Of course it would be nice to have some one to blame when something goes bad. Besides, if I do too much work there will be no time to goof off trolling for salmon and running the pointing dogs for birds.
Someone to blame. Listen, You can always blame me. Everyone else does.
IOU'S now you will find out how many friends you do have. I 've done the same thing & only one stuck with me. It was the one I didn't expect that hung with me.
An old man told me once THAT HE DIDN'T HAVE ANY FRIENDS HE JUST KNEW A LOT OF PEOPLE. Good luck, JJB
I know what you mean! There are a few that I am sure will find a way to leak out, but there are a couple I am sure will be there. For all the basements I've framed out rocked and trimmed you would think I have an Army of help, but I know better.
Bill
I also just completed my new shop. I was working in a 25' X 25' space, and was extremely cramped. Many of the jobs I do are larger cabinet/built-ins, and entertainment centers, so I need a lot of space. My new shop is 36 X 45, and I love it. After 2 years, I still haven't finished the walls, and now regret not doing it immediately. I'm growing a little tired of staring at paper backed insulation all day. I also plan on building a lumber storage system for the lumber in immediate use for the current AND next project, for acclimation purposes. I have a seperate 19' X 24' lumber storage shed, where I keep all my rough lumber. I mill all my own stock, and air dry it, so I need to keep enough Cherry, Maple, and Walnut on hand to keep me going, and plan ahead, because it takes a long time for that stuff to dry.
I'm still tweaking shop alignment of tools, but my bench area is pretty well set. I am going to build an additional new workbench after the new year.
I always build everything myself. A friend helped me with the siding on my new shop, and I rented a crane to set the trusses. I have a 15 1/2 year old son to help me move stuff that is too heavy. Other than that, I did it entirely myself, and I wouldn't have it any other way. I can't stand paying someone to do work for me half as well as I would do it myself. It absolutely drives me crazy!
Jeff
Edited 12/30/2005 4:20 pm ET by JeffHeath
I'm going to be an old man by the time you finish this shop! Common Jeff, get it done so I can visit.
George.
Buddy!
Come on! Cut me some slack. I'm working my @#$ off!! Believe me, I want it done way worse than you do! Besides, you can come for a visit anytime you want. The fridge is full!
I'm gonna start a new bench after the first, and some new tool cabinets, too. I'm working out the designs right now. I've really developed the need for 2 benches with the type of work I'm doing. One for assembly, clamping, etc... which is what I'll use my existing bench for. It was my first that I built with the vises, etc... and now I know what I want different in the next one. I think I'm going to build the next one out of cherry, my favorite wood, with nice Shaker style cabinets and base underneath.
Jeff
JeffHeath
Hey Jeff i built my shop 2 years ago. It 24 X 36 ft. with a gambrel roof. I have a 16 X 36 x 6 ft. storage area upstairs. It is accessed by pulldown stairs in the shop and by ramp from outside. (easery on these tired old legs.) It is on a crawlspace with wood floors. I have a dustcollection system. It is hooked up to pvc pipe under the floor and comes up to all woodworking equipment with a blastgate then flex hose to machine. Everything is 4in. to the flexhose. Then if needed reduced to 3, 21/2 etc.
ZI would like to separate woodwork from finishing. Currently I have my hand tool area in the basement and the power tools seem to be migrating to the garage. Finishing just does not fit in yet.
Bill, I am in the middle of it right now-51' X 49'6" with a 12' eave height. All steel building with a 6" slab engineered for clear span with large steel columns supporting the roof. I subbed out the complicated concrete issue (81 yds) and am erecting the rest now. The entire structure is costing me $49,000 and will have 2500 sq on the ground with a storage mezzinine above. After 33 years at this I am getting my dream shop. Will I have it all done before I move in? Probably not but the electric will be in and the drywll taped. More than that I cant reliably predict but it sure will be nice. aloha, mike
A year ago today I retired and moved to Colorado to live. We started the design of a new home a year ago, broke ground on it in January, and moved in the middle of April. The design had the concept of a basement workshop from the beginning, having had a garage workshop in the past I wanted even heat and central air conditioning. So, some of the features of the design: A 4x5 foot shaft from the garage floor to the basement with a 3 ton hoist over the shaft - to facilitate movement of tools and supplies in and out of the shop. A five foot wide hallway in the basement going to a five foot wide shop door. A seperate 200 amp breaker panel in the shop - just for the shop. There are four light banks which control 49 four foot floresant tubes and 9 can lights. There is a remote control switch that turns the compressor in the garage on and off from the basement shop. There are 11 220 volt outlets and 34 110 volt 20 amp outlets. It has two ceiling mounted air filters, piped in music, CAT 5 telecoms, and coax cable outlets as well. A two horse cyclone dust collector is in a seperate sound proofed room and piped into a 2 foot high false wall along the 70 foot shop wall, this false wall holds the galvanized compressed air lines which have five outlets along the wall and eight of the 220 volt outlets. There is a wood storage area and a finish room that has a double layer of sheetrock, filtered air, special wiring, and outside venting. The shop bathroom has a shower and a large deep stainless kitchen style sink for cleanup. There is a wine cellar in the shop that is temperature controlled, to add a little luxury. At the moment the walls are in final sheetrock and texturing mode, basically I built it myself starting in July this year and should have it completed in less than a month. It is strictly to be used for my hobby. Most of the large power tools for this shop are either just purchased or will be purchased over the next month. The budget for this came from money that I saved and invested in the stock market over the last ten years. It was a fund seperate from my retirement funds; thus, when I retired it allowed me to create this Dream Shop without effecting the household budget.
Moksha
I am building a shop too, but all I can say is wow. And, yes, that last work was shouted. You should get many more comments. Do you have any pictures? I will post details of my shop when I get further along and learn how to send pictures. Congratulations.
Isn't there some kind of cause and effect rule that no matter how much you add on you will fill it up? Really my shop area is big enough for my passion of box making. If only I could stop bringing home the cut-offs of figured wood from my day job (custom kitchens) I wouldn't need more storage. so I guess I would add another couple hundred Sq. ft. for that and do it myself for sure$$$. I'm sure I could be more efficeint with some full time heat. I guess that comes first.
Thanks for your time and sharing what you've been doing. I guess what I also really need to know is this...
What would you need in your workshop to make your woodworking more rewarding and what in you workshop gives you the most pain and frustration ?
Keep 'em coming!
Bill
I wish I had a separate dust-free room for hand work and finishing. That will definitely be part of any expansion on my existing shop or a different shop in the future. I get pretty frustrated when I have the space all cleaned up, ready to while away a few hours with my chisels and planes, and then realize that I need to make a few cuts or do a little sanding. It takes away a lot of the pleasure of hand work when you have to wear a respirator. That's definitely my biggest gripe -- not being able to separate/contain/confine various operations. Of course, this is mainly a function of not enough space to have separate rooms, so it gets back to size, I guess.
For the average (requiring the "normal" collection of machines and tools) serious hobbiest or small professional shop, I think about 800-1,000 square feet is the minimum needed to achieve an efficient work flow and arrangement of spaces. I've never had close to that, so size has always been my biggest frustration.
At the moment HEAT! By the time I get off from my day job it close to 30 degrees in my shop with only a small propane heater. It making my project take a lot longer than I would like it to.
More and better storage for the small things.
But If I was re-desinging my shop, I would try to design it around ease of cleaning and dust control. For example, orienting the main tools so that dust didn't collect on all the exposed surfaces, or behind other tools, and more easily connected to dust collector & shop vacs. That would make it more rewarding, to not have to spend as much time cleaning up as working on the piece.
My Wish List
To Perfect My Shop
The time to finish the walls, ceiling, and make tool cabinets for all my tools presently sitting on shelves.
A seperate finishing room that would stay dust free with an evacuation fan.
Time to build the lumber storage rack I need so desperately.
A cyclone dust collector with a main line and feeds with blast gates to all my tools. I presently use 2 different DC's, and still have to move hoses.
Another workbench, in addition to the one I already built. (Coming early next year!)
Jeff
Edited 12/30/2005 4:21 pm ET by JeffHeath
Everyone likes their own brand, and there's no accounting for taste, but I've got to say I've been very happy with my 5'3" Sicilian brunette.
I will not further muddy the waters by contrasting the benefits of new versus used.
Finally, I hope MS doesn't show up and start talking about how you get what you pay for.
P.S. Don't worry about the topless part; if you're handy, the covers on all of 'em are removable.My goal is for my work to outlast me. Expect my joinery to get simpler as time goes by.
5-8"?..shes too tall ...............try 4-11"................with a flat headWicked Decent Woodworks
(oldest woodworking shop in NH)
Rochester NH
" If the women dont find you handsome, they should at least find you handy........yessa!"
<<5-8"?..shes too tall ...............try 4-11"................with a flat head>>
That's rude....funny....but rude... :-)
a man of simple tastes, i amWicked Decent Woodworks
(oldest woodworking shop in NH)
Rochester NH
" If the women dont find you handsome, they should at least find you handy........yessa!"
LIkes:
SIZE - 25x25 may be cramped for some but it warms-up in a reasonable time.
Work Flow - The 'next tool' is always in the right spot.
Linoleum floors for easy sweep up.
Large blackboard and cork board for leaving myself notes.
Raised building - electrical and dust collection up through floor.
Dust collection gates are reasonably close together for quick changes.
Needs:
It is a very unattractive building.
Ceiling is only 7ft 11" but it is a suspended ceiling so there is a potential for change.
Needs a large assembly table. Using workmates and plywood.
Separate finishing area would be a bonus.
Assembly area is limited in size.
My current work center is the tailend of a flatbed trailer. I do have an open shed for temporary storage. We've just moved in a month ago and a shop is in the planning. I had thought 25 x 25 feet would be huge, but maybe not so?
So how does one heat and cool an all steel building? Insulation?
Norm
Steel buildings can be insulated very effectively. They use a blanket type insulation that comes in any R-values you want. It actually goes on before the siding so it is a seamless blanket of insulation all the way around. Really it should be tighter than you could make a house. You want to make sure that the "sill", or what ever they call it on a steel building, is sealed correctly. There is a special foam insulating stuff that matches the pattern of the siding. Baisicly with a steel building you get what you pay for. If you go with the cheepest company you will likely not get a good product. However a good steel building is very flexible and costs a lot less than anything else, especially if you are looking at over 1,500 sqft.
Mike
Actually, I put up a pole building a bit over a year ago. The company that provided the materials and such were great about accomodating my needs. They recommended what they called commercial perlins. They are just regular perlins, only installed sideways? By that I mean, instead of like a 2X6 installed with the 6" width perpendicular to the ground like normal, they are installed with the 6" width parallel to the ground. Spaced 24 inches on center, I just stapled in 24 inch wide R19 fiberglass between them. Did the same on the rafters so I have R19 throughout! With double pane windows, the shop stays warmer in the winter than my house!
Steel is a great way to go. Just spring for standing seam roofing over 1/2 inch wafer board on the roof so you NEVER have to worry about leaks on that nice lumber.
I do wish I'd put troughs in the floor for dust collection and wire though....maybe next time.
steel buildings are wonderful with 1/4" thick bubble cloth with shiny aluminum applied before the steel goes on. Its called radiant barrier insulation (just Google that), inexpensive, stops 97% of radiant heat penetration, and is a vapor barrier too so your steel building doesnt condense moisture and drip on you. I used it on mine and I love it.... aloha, mike
Did you then drywall the whole thing, and if so, what did you hang DW and tool racks on?
Norm
Norm, the radiant barrier went on the purlins and the sheet metal went over that. The drywall is attached to the inside of the purlins further increasing the air space. aloha, mike
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm to make my woodworking more rewarding??................... more talent. Alas , Woodcract doesnt have that on sale this week.Wicked Decent Woodworks
(oldest woodworking shop in NH)
Rochester NH
" If the women dont find you handsome, they should at least find you handy........yessa!"
The size of my shop is currently 28 x 40 with 9 foot ceiling and a gambrell roof which allowed a secont floor for storage of 20 x 40. It also has a lean off the south side with inside demensions of 8 x 36 for air drying lumber.
I would like to add a finishing room and and a separate room for the air compressor and new dust collector.
Except for the mason work I would likely do the works myself ( do not like mason work).
I am happy with the layout of my shop and the efficentcy with the exception of the finsihing of the projects.
Heres a link to the inside of the shop (older photos) if anyone is interested.
http://www.superwoodworks.com/Projects/ShopShots.htm
View Image
http://www.superwoodworks.com
many thanks for the shots of your shop. lots of great ideas. paddydahat
My shop is in the basement, a walk-out entry would be much nicer than stepping up & down the bulkhead.
Thank you for your inputs and ideas. I'm still wondering if there are others out there that have wishes that would make their workshops better and what would they be?
Which is most important to you? How to equip and improve your workshop or How to equip your workshop and improve your workshop ECONOMICALLY?
Thanks again for your input,
Bill
A workshop is the ultimate expression of what I have come to call Activity-Based Design.
Process flow & ergonomics. Storage that makes stuff easy to retrieve, use, and put away again. Lighting, air quality. Abundant storage. Quiet & comfortable.
My ultimate shop isn't that big, but it comprises three ground floor spaces (a machine room, a bench room, and a finishing room) and an upstairs office loft that overlooks the bench and machine rooms. Lumber storage, dust collection, and metalworking would be in separate freestanding outbuildings.
If I ever win the lottery, I'll post pictures ; - )
-Jazzdogg-
"Don't ask yourself what the world needs. Ask yourself what makes you come alive, and go do that, because what the world needs is people who have come alive." Gil Bailie
Bill.. Just me..Bigger and Cheap HEAT!
I make an errort every day to do something to improve my shop/working conditions, just a few minutes each day realy adds up. It can be as simple as putting away items that have been negelected. The important thing is to be consistent.
I am planning on building a new shop this spring and plan on doing most of the work myself with the exception of the slab. I am planning on a 32'x32' barn style building with a full attic for storage. As far as what would make this a rewarding place to do wood working I am hoping to create a space that is almost a second living area. One that is well organized comfortable to work in and inviting to family and friends. I have always felt that creativity is at it's greatest in a good enviroment and that is the kind of space I am trying to create. What nags me about the present shop I work out of? well for starters it used to be a chicken coop, it's got a low ceiling is only 16'x16' , the floor is pitted and My abilities are starting to get cramped working in this space. I am looking forward to using the information I have gained here and on other sites to create a new livable workspace for me.
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