Replies

1. 
   peter28 | Jan 09, 2007 02:07am | #1

   Knecht,

   I have a few questions;

   You said you brushed three coats of poly. Did you seal in the oil stain first? What brand poly did you use? How big are the spots and are they random or just wear marks? What brand and color stain did you use?

   The first thing to do is give it a thorough cleaning and remove any grease etc. Next, you need to "repair the repair" That is lightly sand the edges of the spots so the old finish will have some tooth.

   Color repairs are tricky. Err on the lighter side at first so not to put a darker spot in the middle of things. To make a fast drier, try this; oil stains require mixing of the pigment to put them in suspension. Open a can that you have NOT SHAKEN. In other words, let the pigments settle to the bottom of the can. With a small stick or stirrer, take a dab of the thick pigment off the bottom and put it in a plastic lid( like the tops from take out food) Next mix in small amounts of lacquer thinner to make it liquid. Using a small brush or pad you can lightly and quickly apply this color which will dry in minutes. Don't over do the color.

   Seal this with some Seal Coat. This is blonde shellac. One or two coats will suffice. Wait about 15 to 20 minutes and lightly scuff it with a grey scotch pad.

   As far as top coating goes, this is where it gets tricky. There are some fast drying coatings. However, you still need some cure time or failure is possible.

   Some of the quick drying oil based coatings I know of are Sherwood Wood Classics by Sherwin Williams and Click 15 ( I hope I have that name right) by Zinseer.I have not used either of these products so I can't give you first hand feed back.

   Whatever you use for a topcoat, try to do it as early as possible after closing. Keep the coats thin so they will cure quicker. You may have to do some finishing on successive nights to get the build up that you want.

   This is a case where poly is a PIA. It doesn't like to bond to itself after it's cured. The shellac will help the new coats bond.

   Without question the preferable treatment would be to strip and refinish. If that becomes a possibility, let me know and we can discuss some options.

   Good luck,

   Peter

    

    

    

    

    

    

1. 
   Knecht | Jan 09, 2007 06:45am | #2

         I can't believe it took me a year to sign on at FWW.com......Thank you so much for your time and advice Peter.  So, the first thing down was a waterbased Behlan grain filler, brown. Next was the minwax oilbased stain,im not exactly sure what color, I used it up, it was golden oakish,I'll find out tomorrow.  Then came the minwax oil based poly,semi-gloss, three brush coats,and a sprayed final coat.  The wear is primarily on the doors, a couple of spots on the actual cabinet,but the finish looks realy thin on the whole thing.Today I retrieved two of the doors and brought them back to the shop. I sanded the backs of both doors with 400 grit, I sprayed one with behlan tinted laquer,golden oak. The color is pretty close but I think adhesion would be a problem,there is a spot on the top corner that looks very close to rejecting the laquer.Strike one..on the other door I sprayed more oil based minwax poly,  as of right now,  it looks good. Then I came inside and read your advice.I love your idea of brushing in the touch up areas. And Sealcoat is without a doubt my favorite substance on the earth.I was a little hesitant to give the whole thing a barrier coat because of storys of clouding shellac from hot liquids.Your giving me confidence! Tomorrow I'll find those topcoats you recommended. Thank you again for your time. If you ever need advice on screwing up a finish you know where to find me.......Knecht

1. 
   peter28 | Jan 09, 2007 04:24pm | #3

   Knecht,

   As you're finding out, you can't spray lacquer over poly. The solvents in the lacquer will soften the coating.

   Poly can be difficult to repair. If you are going to use shellac as a barrier coat, be sure to prepare the surface well.That is clean, sand etc. Keep the shellac thin.

   The hot liquids won't be a problem when you top coat.

   Do yourself a BIG favor and read some finishing books. Jeff Jewitt has a couple of good ones. Also check out Teri Masachi's new book. You seem to be guessing a bit. Educate yourself and your work will improve dramatically.

   I've screwed up plenty of finishes over time, but thanks for the offer.

   Peter 

1. 
   Knecht | Jan 09, 2007 05:27pm | #4

          Jeff's book is the most dogeared from use in my library. I couldn't find the chapter on "repairing finishes you applied when you knew nothing". Thanks to help from people like Jeff and yourself finishing has become quite pleasurable(excluding the poly repair) Next is a course from Teri, and a HVLP turbine system. I mentioned this to the gentelmen at welco and they spit on the ground.In their opinion  all the turbines heat the finish,causing problems.They suggested a larger compressor and a hvlp gun. I think a turbine would be perfect for me,I just have to decide wich one.

                                                            Thanks Again- Knecht

                                                                           

1. 
   peter28 | Jan 09, 2007 11:07pm | #5

   You know what they say, everyone has an opinion...........................

   For a large scale and prodution, a compressor would be better. For what I think you are doing, turbines are fine. I've used one for close to twenty years.

   I wonder what problem they are quoting with turbines. Their air is dry, oiless and warmed a bit during operation. I've always found that to be a plus.

   Peter

    

    

    

2. 
   Knecht | Jan 13, 2007 01:51am | #6

   Peter,

   <!----><!----><!----> 

            Your advice was right on the money, the final coat was Zinsser quick 15 , I bought it at the <!----><!----><!---->Newtown<!----> <!---->Color<!----> <!---->Center<!----><!---->, what a cool place! And its across the street from My Place Restaurant (my favorite place for a beer) By chance I tried a brush stroke of amber shellac on a spot where the color had been broken, and it was exactly right! I was skipping around the shop like a lunatic. I scuffed and sealed the amber shellac with seal coat,and away I went.The doors are all done,and tomorrow night Im touching up the cabinet.It will be great to have this off my conscience.To celebrate I ordered a turbine system from Homestead finishing! Thank you again for all your help-

                                                                                                           Knecht

    

    

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