Please help me, I am building my first house. I love the dark rich mahogany cabinets. Because of budget considerations, I thought I could use birch for my cabinets and stain them a mahogany, my cabinet maker states that you cannot use birch or maple and get an even stain even with two coats. He suggests oak but the samples he showed me still looked very rough and uneven.
Is there no way to get a poor man’s great mahogany look for cabinets?
Thanks for any advice.
Replies
Hi bc , Ask your cabinetmaker to bid the job in African Mahogany , it should only be no more than $.75 a board foot more than Oak . It is not as hard as genuine Mahogany but has a beautiful grain and lots of ribbon grain running through it . good luck
Thanks Dusty,
I can't wait to ask him about African Mahogany.
In the meantime, I looked up info on Mahogany types. Thanks for helping me to start to see, that like everything else in God's creation, there is unbelievable variety and beauty. Mahogany is not just mahogany, but there is also mahogany, that is really not mahogany, like Phillipian mahogany, etc. Plus the search opened a most extensive world of info on the wood craft world.
Thanks again for your time.
BC,
I'm about to head down stairs to stain a birch cabinet I just finished sanding. The hardwood price for birch was quite stiff....can't imagine a big price differential with mahogany....however, I think the ply is significantly higher in price (about $30-40 per sheet).
When I built my house I went with cherry cabinets in the kitchen....for that rich warm color. My cabinet maker was a little shocked..said he had only done cabinets once before in cherry over the past 25 years. The quality of the wood motivated him to produce a better outcome....just like it does us...hmmm..
You might consider marine grade mahogny plywood. A friend and I are building a wooden boat and will use it on the stern. From one side, one can't tell the difference. Of course, a marine source may be a problem depending on where you are located.
bc, your cabinetmaker is correct, up to a point. True mahoganies-- south American swietenia species specifically are unique in their grain patterns, durability in service, and in their working properties. Most, but not all, true mahogany furniture receives some kind of combination of dying/staining/grain filling, and polishing prior to being put into service, and that includes kitchen cabinetry.
Good cabinet shops can take birch and maple and give it the 'look' of mahogany-- basically a deep uniform, reddy colour that masks the original wood colour, and also tends to rather disguise the grain-- which looks nothing like mahogany in the first place, so it needs to be hidden, ha, ha.. It's quite an involved process and would take a while to describe, so I won't, but, simplistically, I describe it as akin to 'thin' paint, which rather demeans the skill involved in effecting the look. It's a skilful process all the same, so not really very cheap.
As has been suggested, African mahogany-- khaya species, might be a substitute candidate. Another timber often used as a cheap substitute, as you've found, is one of the Shorea's of which there's something like 60, and the one sold as Phillipine lauan is sometimes sold as Phillipine 'mahogany' if it's pink enough, ha, ha. Both are at least close to the right colour to start with, although the grain patterns are not really the same, but both have been used for a long time to get the 'real' mahogany look.
In truth, a lot of people think of the khaya's as primarily a mahogany substitute, which is unfair because it's often an attractive material in its own right. A lot of the Shorea's are thought of in the same way, and some examples rather deserve the tag, but within the genus are some truly interesting examples with unusual grain patterns, colour, properties, durability, etc.. Slainte.
Website The poster formerly known as Sgian Dubh.
Edited 4/18/2003 8:28:17 AM ET by RichardJ
bc, if using African mahogany (Khaya) brings the price down enough to meet your budget, it's your best bet...because it actually is a true mahogany, belonging to the mahogany family; Meliaceae...This means the anatomical structure of its figure is comparable to that of genuine mahogany (Swietenia)...so the only real variable you're dealing with is the staining to match color.
If you have to go with something even cheaper, there is a South American wood called banak that, anatomically speaking, is an even better counterfeit for genuine mahogany than are some of the lauans (Philippine mahoganies.) Banak is softer than genuine mahogany and usually much lighter in color, but the key thing is the figure is a better match to the true mahoganies, which simplifies the finishing process that Richard referred to in his post.
...As a side note, banak is a member of the nutmeg family and it is a pleasant wood to work with, because of its mild, spicey scent. It also has better shaping characteristics than do most of the lauans, which tend to be coarser textured an somewhat stringy. It is also used for making plywood, so availability of the stock in the form(s) you need shouldn't create too difficult of a sourcing problem.
You people are absolutely wonderful!!!What great information. I can't thank you enough for taking the time to share your expertise. Your posts were so encouraging and informative. I am beginning to see why my neighbor use to always love to be in his wood shop making everything and anything. He said he loved wood.
This project does look possible. From the postings, to the best of my understanding:
One, the best alternative would be to try and use a wood more closely aligned with mahogany,the nutmeg family sounds wonderful for the mild spicey fragrance, though I guess the stain, etc would mask that. If I can't do that then the key it would seem from the posts is to work with preparing the wood for the stain.
If I have to go with birch. One last question, is it true that the color stain samples I have from every paint store in town do show a true picture? Let's say for birch, I just have to work on preparing the wood to get that color? I mean, it is possible to get a mahogany smooth dark rich stain on birch, right?
bc, staining is an art, and being logged on with Richard here, you're dealing with one of the best cabinet makers in the country (even if we did have to steal him from the Brits)...So, I'd recommend that you take his advice on finishing techniques.
The only thing further I can contribute is that, if you do go with birch, you will want to mask the figure as much as possible, because it is a fine textured, diffuse-porous wood that is anatomically very different than mahogany. The typical technique is to use a pre-sealer, which takes out the porosity of the wood as a significant variable and this will help prevent the wood's figure from telegraphing through the stain. Top coats of a varnish stain (where the pigment is actually trapped in the film of varnish, rather than absorbed into the wood) also helps to mask the figure. These are techniques that are pretty much scoffed at as options on really fine furniture, but for interior decorating purposes they are sometimes the most practical, affordable approach. Good luck.
You sweet talking flatterer, Arno. It's not true, but the cheque's in the post anyway, ha, ha. But seriously, it sounds like bc has a cabinetmaker putting together these cabinets, so the polishing job shouldn't be bc's physical problem.
Still, if the cabinetmaker is heading out to check the price of African mahogany, or Phillipine lauan (meranti, lun, etc.,) or even that stuff from South America you mentioned-- the name has slipped my mind-- then I'd guess they are heading in the right direction for the 'rich mahogany' look. I was surprised by the alternative offering of oak as a mahogany substitute though, but there ya go! Slainte.
Website The poster formerly known as Sgian Dubh.
Alder stains out to look like mahogany- the shop I work in makes lots of cabinets from Alder it looks pretty good when finished I think better than any other woods very close look of mahogany. Its kind of soft though.
I will add to some of everyone's suggestions. Try alder. The color is good and it can take an amazing amount of different colors to mimic other woods. The sheet goods are available, but around $50.00 for 3/4" veneer on MDF. If you do raised end panels in your cabintry, you won't need that much alder sheet good and maple ply or melamine for the interiors. It's available in So Cal. Also try the "Ultra Penetrating stains" and/or "Wiping Stains" from "Mohawk"
How can I thank you people for all your comments and suggestions - what ####wonderful and important resource for us eager neophytes. Ok, so we are going with Alder which my wonderful cabinet maker confirmed can stain to a great rich finish. Talk about save the day. Thank you thank you. To be honest I didn't know what we could do given only the oak, maple and birch alternatives. Thank you again for helping me think out of the box. I know nothing about wood but now I am hooked on reading your comments you certainly cover a delightful range of the wood field.
BC,
" then I'd guess they are heading in the right direction for the 'rich mahogany' look. I was surprised by the alternative offering of oak as a mahogany substitute though, but there ya go! Slainte"
Don't forget to read between the lines....antenna should be up!
This forum post is now archived. Commenting has been disabled