Replies

1. 
   Kevin | Sep 26, 2005 10:07pm | #1

   I don't know whether this is true or not. But, I've heard that if you completely seal Poplar it will rot. Something to do with unstable resins in the wood.

   May be nothing more than an urban legend. Maybe someone else here knows one way or the other.

2. 
   mike4244 | Sep 26, 2005 10:11pm | #2

   Yes, even if you did not use epoxy but painted the sash with a good oil paint you'll be okay.Poplar isn't the best for exterior as you know, but many window sash were made from poplar and have lasted two hundred years or more. It has to be well maintained, painted ,especially end grain every 5 years or so.This depends on the climate , orientation to the sun etc, but 5 year intervals should suffice. I think the epoxy idea is a good one. The epoxy also needs to be painted or varnished to keep it from degrading in the sun.

   I just rechained 16 large windows in a former bank built in 1907. The sash was poplar, I was told the only time the windows were ever opened was to paint them. The sash was in excellent shape.

   mike

1. 
   IronDog | Sep 26, 2005 10:39pm | #3

   Thanks for the replies guys. I have been restoring some very old sashes in my place which is a loft in a converted warehouse. While some of the sashes were heavily damaged I was able to get them back in very good condition with epoxy. This is the first time I worked with epoxy extensively. Some of the windows don't have the sashes so I'll remake them, and having gotten to know epoxy it just seemed that it and paint would make the poplar viable. Once all the parts are made I thought I would definitely soak the end grain parts and probably give everything a light brushing of thin epox.I have included a couple pics of the old sashes during the beginning of the repair process. Really bad shape! I'll post some of them repaired as well.TomYou Don't Know.

   You Don't Want to Know.

   You Aren't Going to Know.

   
3. 
   acornw | Sep 27, 2005 08:17pm | #4

   I strongly advise against the use of Poplar for any exterior work.  Window sash in particular.

   First, the Poplar available today is 2nd or 3rd growth, lots of sapwood and no ring density at all.  Old growth heart Poplar with high ring density is what you see in older work, 100%.  The sap Poplar, low ring density, etc. rotted a long time ago. I have seen Poplar sprout mushrooms in as little as 3 years, properly painted and maintained.  I personally have witnessed companies going out of business that staked their fortunes to Poplar in exterior use.  One company even sought the advise of a major agricultural university, and Poplar was recommended for windows.  Liability claims put them out after 7 years.

   Second, Poplar moves more than most woods, and in tight tolerance work like sash, this will be a problem.  Using kiln dried Poplar means it will only expand from where it is now, and will give cause for refits further on down the road. The air dried used in early work was also likely refit a time or two, but many years ago.

   Third, using Poplar for exterior is a waste of time and materials.  Both should be considered resources to be utilized wisely. There are many woods that will work well, and most will work far better than Poplar ever can.  Use the nice Poplar for some nice interior work.

   Fourth, the thin epoxy is a mere get-over, and will not stand thru time.  Especially if there are refits, or problems with painting the epoxy, etc.

   Don't get me wrong, Poplar is a fine wood in its proper place.  Just don't try to make it do something it is incapable of.  And don't believe hearsay anecdotal stories of Poplar's prowess.  I have observed the Poplar thing for 30 years, and my advise is only re-affirmed after all this time.

   http://www.acornwoodworks.com

   Dave S

1. 
   CharlieStanford | Sep 27, 2005 08:27pm | #5

   Well put.  You're exactly right.

2. 
   IronDog | Sep 28, 2005 03:47pm | #7

   Thank you Dave,Very well reasoned response.
   Given that modern woods don't have the ring density of old.
   What would be the best wood for this purpose?I have a source for sassafrass lumber which someone recommended once.The link below seems to support this idea.Tomhttp://www.hobbithouseinc.com/personal/woodpics/sassafras/sassafras%20fact%20sheet.htmYou Don't Know.

   You Don't Want to Know.

   You Aren't Going to Know.

1. 
   acornw | Sep 28, 2005 05:06pm | #8

   Your location may influence your choices.  Here in the Midwest, I'm a growing fan of Cypress for exterior work.  White Oak is also good, though heavy and hard.  If you are in the West, Red Cedar or the old standby, Sugar Pine will work.  Cedar is too soft for durability, but it is slow to rot. 

   When we build windows here, we use Sugar Pine. 

   By the way, I was once told (by an old time lumberman) that Sassafras - even green - will not rust an iron nail. I haven't tested it, but that could be added to the species lore.  I don't have any experience with Sassafras in exterior work, and the link you provided is the first time I have heard of it as a good exterior wood.

   The labor that goes into making windows and the performance of same - they must work - justifies using the best species for the job.  If I were to make a little stool or rustic table - something quick - for exterior use, then I would have fun and experiment a bit. 

   Dave S

4. 
   Glaucon | Sep 28, 2005 03:53am | #6

   I agree with above about poplar.  I'd favor fir as the best compromise between strength and rot resistance.

   Glaucon

   If you don't think too good, then don't think too much...