Replies

1. 
   RW | Nov 18, 2002 03:01am | #1

   Yes, and yes. Top of the line, no, but certainly better than many others priced in the same category (i.e. Oldham, Craftsman . . . )

1. 
   noone51 | Nov 18, 2002 07:11am | #2

   Top of the line.. Check out Whiteside's also...

1. 
   RW | Nov 19, 2002 12:42am | #3

   Well, I dunno if I buy that. Jesada came in a big glowing ship one night and put probes in my head and now I'm a dyed in the wool Jesada loyalist. But for a twenty buck bit, PC sure aint too bad. I think the Craftsman stuff is just ridiculous how lousy it performs. Do have a good stash of Whiteside, Amana, CMT, blah blah blah as well, and the whiteside stuff has a healthy amount of carbide on it. Those are quality stuff. But I'm really telling this to no-one, aren't I?

   Ha, used your own pun on ya. Geez, I gotta get another job.

1. 
   noone51 | Nov 19, 2002 07:09am | #4

   Yep ya got me on that one.. Jesada's are pretty nice too ! LOL

2. 
   charlesm | Nov 19, 2002 07:48am | #5

   It's ironic that you approve of PC bits and bash Craftsman bits in the same post. I could be mistaken, but I think they are both made by the same manufacturer (for now).

   Charles M

   Freud, Inc.

1. 
   RW | Nov 19, 2002 10:05pm | #6

   Well, if you're right, that is ironic. I suppose most of us comment based on what we have at the time for info. My experience thus far has largely been positive with PC. I don't demand a lot out of the ones I have based on my own assumption that they wont handle it, and maybe that contributes. The couple of times I used Craftsman bits they didn't hold up for anything. I had a straight bit that went all of about 5 feet before it burned. When Sears replaced it, the new one went about 7 feet and the carbide chipped off. This was just shallow cuts in oak. I like Jesada b/c I've never had any real issues with them and their customer service is good. I've got about 80 bits in the stash, so I've tried a good deal of whats out there. Only one of them at this point is red, however, so that doesn't qualify me to comment on your line. I'd like the opportunity to form an opinion about Freud bits, if you're feeling charitable.

2. 
   charlesm | Nov 19, 2002 10:44pm | #7

   I'd love to provide all of the members here with bits to test but, alas, I am merely a lowly techie with no real power of persuasion. My suggestions, ideas and opinions are heard but my generousity is quelched.

   BTW, you might be interested to know that the company that owns PC and Delta now owns Oldham and my understanding is that PC bits will soon change.

   Charles M

   Freud, Inc.

3. 
   RW | Nov 20, 2002 01:03am | #8

   Well, add company buy outs to that death and taxes list. It occured to me that three people talking about the same product having different experiences could all still be right if they bought the product a few years apart. Craftsman is a pretty good example of this. I still have corded tools that my dad bought when he was my age that work. Then they went and subbed out some of that and in the early 90s when I started seeing the new and improved line everything I heard from users was bad. I think Ryobi was making it all then, and maybe still is. Now we're ten years later and the stuff I hear is mixed, and while that isn't great, it's not all bad either. Someone likes it. Ridgid tools had a great rep, but you couldn't buy them just anywhere. Now HD carries them and they're identical to most of the Craftsman stuff, and they don't look anything like the Ridgid stuff I was using in the 80's. Everyone says the trend is a downward spiral. In some places that's true. Make it faster, make it cheaper. Sometimes the downward trend is new technology that just doesn't pan out once removed from paper and put into action. But some places still focus on quality and whatever they have to charge to make it, the people that really really really want quality are going to pay that price. You can buy a Stanley plane, or a Lie-Nielsen, or if you really want to get crazy, Bridge City. I imagine blades and bits are no different in that respect. Market focus. The target audience is X and the price is Y, whatever quality fits that bill is what goes out. I think we've hijacked another thread.

4. 
   DonaldCBrown | Nov 21, 2002 03:53am | #10

   Charles-

   Maybe you can support or deny an impression I have about router bits. I think there's lots of trading around among the major manufacturers. That is, Jesada, Freud, Whiteside, and the other top-end names don't themselves manufacutre every last profile in their catalog; rather, they trade around: Here's a bushel of ogee bits, I'd like some of your 3/8" slot cutters in return.

   Can you comment?

5. 
   charlesm | Nov 21, 2002 04:21am | #11

   I can't speak for anyone but Freud on this: We produce every bit we sell. You will not find a Freud router bit that was made by another manufacturer and then labeled as Freud. You'd be amazed with the manufacturing facility we have. We even manufacture our own carbide. We purchase steel from Germany and bearings from many sources but, other than those two components, we produce all our bits from start to finish in our own factories.

   Charles M

   Freud, Inc.

6. 
   DonaldCBrown | Nov 21, 2002 04:33am | #12

   Thanks, Charles, for the information. That's somehow reassuring. About Freud.

7. 
   noone51 | Nov 21, 2002 08:34am | #13

   Charles, my favorite suppliers now refuse to carry the Freud product. Their complaint is that it is far to dificult to deal with the reps. I think I know what they are saying but the bottom line is that your product is not on the shelves anymore. My personal favorites are Whiteside, Amana and Freud but when the most available is Whiteside then its really no question as to which one I buy. IMHO, its not the quality of your product, its the way your employer deals with its distributors.

   Fix that problem and you'll be back on the top of my list for sure!

8. 
   charlesm | Nov 21, 2002 02:42pm | #14

   Wow! Thanks, that's valuable info. Any way you could Email some details? I'd love the opportunity to remedy this.

   Charles M

   Freud, Inc.

9. 
   ScottWhiting | Nov 21, 2002 05:33pm | #15

   I don't think you will find any of the major manufacturers or resellers trading bits. What you may find is outsourcing to companies that make bits under different names. The bits a manufacturer like that make are made to the engineering specs and quality parameters of the purchasing company. In one factory it is quite common to make from low end to high end bits (or blades) using the same machinery with different grades of content (steel, carbide, etc). Other things will also vary like finish and grinding speed which affect the overall quality of the tool.Scott

   Scott's Sharpening Service

   Glendale, Az.

10. 
    DonaldCBrown | Nov 21, 2002 06:05pm | #16

    Scott-

    Good information. Thanks a lot.

    Don

11. 
    charlesm | Nov 21, 2002 07:05pm | #17

    Scott,

    That is great information and it's fascinating to me because we also produce products for other brands but we only have one grade of manufacturing. If you buy a private label product that was made by us it will be the same quality as one we sell under our own banner. We produce different grades of product in the Freud blade line but the differences are in things like the thickness of carbide, the thickness of the plates, different intended specialty applications, etc. Not in processes like grinding. But we do offer different finishes (the color red is a Trademark of Freud).

    Charles M

    Freud, Inc.

12. 
    ScottWhiting | Nov 21, 2002 07:18pm | #18

    Charles

    I use that same philosophy in my saw shop. I happen to grind blades and bits of many different quality levels but use the same grits and feed rates for all. But I, and probably you too, know of shops that will use diffeent feed rates and different grit wheels either based on a pricing schedule or based on the initial quality of the tool. I am not saying either philosophy is inherently better, just that I choose one as I think it is best for my customers (and my business) but need to acknowledge that other folks choose a different path.Scott

    Scott's Sharpening Service

    Glendale, Az.

2. 
   mike4244 | Nov 21, 2002 02:40am | #9

    Mike, I have used PC routerbits and would not buy them for myself.I am not knocking PC  as I have a number of their power tools and they are the top of the line. I buy Whiteside online, Hanson , Freud and Amana locally. All of these last four brands are excellent bits. Amana profile bits seem to be the best , this is just my opinion.

     Mike