I am building my new workshop. I have all the Dust Collection planned and locations for everything laid out.
I am putting a concrete slab in with radiant heat. The concrete is going to be poured next week (If the weather ever clears up).
Anyway I am installing a DC run under the floor to the rear of where my table saw is going to be, this should be the only tool I need with dedicated DC in the center of the room.
I realised last night I did not have power planned to the center of the room, for the table saw. How should I run it? I was thinking of putting a large piece of conduit in. This would allow for future expansion. Any better ideas? Really anything is possible right now since I haven’t poured the floor.
Also anysuggestions on how I should terminate the DC port. I was just planning on having a piece of 4″ PVC sticking out of the floor and cutting it to height later.
Thanks -Tim
Replies
Look at you electrical code first, if applicable. I'd use EMT big enough to pull 10/3 through with no rubbing in case of a 3 HP/230V saw, maybe 1-1/2". Look at Grainger for good weatherproof floor boxes. Keep it a little proud to prevent water infiltration. Flip up covers too.
Ask over to Breaktime. Lots of sparkies there.
Run the conduit before you pour the concrete, and place a junction/outlet box recessed into the floor. That way you can wire the machine in, and you won't need to worry about protrusions that interfere with machine placement.
Politics is the antithesis of problem solving.
Some local codes will not allow a recessed floor outlet in a woodworking shop (because of dust getting into the works). A "tombstone" type of outlet works in that situation, although it pretty much forces you to put a piece of equipment there, if only to avoid tripping over the outlet.
-Steve
I too have a concrete slab with radiant heat. I also planned out my shop layout ahead of time so that I could serve the tablesaw with dust collection. The layout didn't work very efficiently despite my best efforts. So I recently moved things a bit..... turned the tablesaw end for end among other things. Boy, am I glad my dust pipe wasn't encased in the concrete. I have a utility trench (9" wide x 10" deep) covered over with plywood to be flush with the concrete surface. The dust piping (6" dia. steel) runs inside this trench as does the electrical conduit. I had to monkey with both during this last move.
If I had to build again I'd enhance this system with lateral trenches that would tee off the main one. That would give even more flexibility without any real downside that I can see.
As to your original questions: I would use 6" piping for the dust collector and 1" minimum electrical conduit. You must check in with a local electrician about codes. There are some rules that are not obvious to us wood hacks regerding electrical and concrete slabs. Termination height above floor is one that comes to mind. I'd cement on temporary end caps to your pvc ducting if it were me. That would be cheap insurance against a few rocks.
Back to my system: The radiant piping all ran around the trench. It sounds like a hassle but really wasn't all that much extra work. Don't run your tubing under anything. Always take it through doorways, never under a wall.
Is there any reason not to have the electical come from ABOVE instead? Just a thought...
Da Bear...
I put an outlet in the floor and thought I knew where my table saw would be, but I did not realize how many times I move things around. I have a small shop, but think I would be better to have a cord on the floor for I am always hitting the floor box, tripping on it, and wishing it was not there. I thought I would put the line in and think about it later......still thinking.
I tend to agree with DaBear. A drop from the ceiling with a twist lock plug makes more sense to me.
The floor plug will end up full of things, unless it is one of the tombstone style, and then it becomes a knee-knocker.
The overhead drop with a twist lock plug installed on the saw makes more sense. It is easily relocated if need be, and doesn't have any down side I can think of.
I have an overhead guard on the table saw that stems up from the right side. I plan to run the cord back from the switch to there and then up to the ceiling.
If somebody has a downside let me know, as I'm getting ready to put two runs down the ceiling in my shop.
As for dust collection, I would be tempted to keep it in the air too. If in the slab, I would cut it off to grade before the pour and put a threaded cap on it. It is lots more difficult to get a slab true if there are things sticking up. If the PVC is cut to grade, it adds another control point instead of an obstacle.
If somebody has a downside let me know, as I'm getting ready to put two runs down the ceiling in my shop.
The only problem I see with drop down cord for the table saw is that everything goes over the top of the saw. If the cord is anywhere near the saw it may interfere with your cut.
Drop downs would probably work for most other stationary machines which have 'dead spots' where wood just isn't passed.
Overall the method is probably better than encasing a plug in cement... I just move my shop around too much.
Buster
Buster, I plan to run my cord over to the right hand end of the saw, and route it up the upright for the Biesemeyer overhead guard. That is about 60-inches plus to the right of the blade, and on the offside of the fence at full travel, so there shouldn't be any interference with any material.
I plan to run my cord over to the right hand end of the saw, and route it up the upright for the Biesemeyer overhead guard. That is about 60-inches plus to the right of the blade, and on the offside of the fence at full travel, so there shouldn't be any interference with any material.
Yes, that would be a good 'dead spot' as well. I have a short fence and no overhead guard on my saw, so overhead power would probably get in the way in my case. But would work very well in your situation.
Most of my tools are along the wall of the garage shop the exception being the table saw which sits in front of the door. I don't need much space on the right sid eof the saw, so it's fairly close to the wall with the DC in between... so I can not walk that way. The cords are just on the floor. I'm about to move to a larger shop, and I see how cord routes might become a problem. I pretty determined to have some 110V power coming down from the center of the shop, I find that the portable hand tool cord are a greater hazard the the stationary tools.
I did a power drop to my tablesaw with a twist-lock, and it works great. I was overly concerned about having it in exactly the right place. Turns out to be not a big deal - I had it come down to the far right rear corner of my (52") tableboard, and it has never interfered with any function of the saw, as it is just over 4 feet sideways and a few feet in back of the blade.
For a 110 drop, I'm thinking about cord reels mounted on the ceiling. I'm also considering cable tool holder / balances. That way things would still be close at hand but not taking up space on the benches.
I agree that having cords for hand tools and bench top tools running all over the floor is a big pain. I'm dealing with it now. But, I should be able to wire in two dedicated tool circuits this fall.
My shop is still used as the garage for part of the year, and all the tools and benches go back to the walls if I want to get the cars in. I have a large enough area, that even with the cars in I still have about fifteen feet from the back wall to the front of the cars, so I don't have to break things down completely. And, I can still get full use of one bench.
I, too, would recommend a ceiling drop with a twist lock plug. That's what I have in my shop to run my tablesaw, and I've had to move the receptacle a few times as my shop configuration changed.
I can assure you that it was much easier moving the receptacle in the drywall ceiling than it would have been had it been encased in concrete in the floor...
Zolton* Some people say I have a problem because I drink hydraulic brake fluid. But I can stop any time I want.
Zolton,
encased in concrete : Too confining to me! Sounds so final never to be seen again.
Regards,
Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Edited 9/7/2007 12:39 pm ET by KiddervilleAcres
Bob ,
That's the point.
Once you put the conduit or receptacle box (I know you can't, by code, install a recep flush with the floor, but I've seen some that are that way) into the floor slab, it would be very hard to move it if you decided to reconfigure your shop. That's why I prefer the overhead installation...
Hey, how's your turning coming? Zolton* Some people say I have a problem because I drink hydraulic brake fluid. But I can stop any time I want.
Zolton,
My thinking on these things is that when you have something that could either clog or for any reason you need to get to it...............
The turning is kinda on tha back burner for now. Gotta Queene Anne on the table at the moment. As for progress, haven't gotten beyond the roughing gouge but it is fun! Catches suck! Those are getting less and lee though.
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
I should probably say that I have some of my wiring under the floor to the center island of tools, i.e. TS/Router and plugs for handtools, but the floor is wood.
If I need to get to it, take out a few screws, pick up the plywood and I'm there.
Life is simple,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Bob,
Wiring and what-not under a wood floor is a different situation, and much easier dealt with than concrete. It's not the floor-electric aspect I don't like. It's the permanance of mounting stuff in concrete. Your wood floor solution is a good alternative...It also has to be much easier on the legs than a cold slab.
I've taken carpet and padding scraps from when we replaced the carpet in our house and laid them everywhere on my concrete shop floor. It's not pretty, but it sure beats standing on a slab.
My turning has been back-burnered for a bit as well. It's busy season in the photography world, and I've been out on jobs a lot. Just itching to get back at the lathe though. I've gotten a lot of good use out of Richard Raffan's books and his DVD, Turning Wood. It was very valuable to me to see exactly how he handles the lathe tools - and also how rapidly he does everything. Of course he's been at it for a while..
Zolton* Some people say I have a problem because I drink hydraulic brake fluid. But I can stop any time I want.
My shop has two PVC pipes running in concrete to the center of the room. One is for dust collection and one is for electrical cabling. I ran three power legs (two 110v and one 220 volt.) The PVC for electrical wires stops at the floor level but the romex continues on out several feet. One is hardwired to my 220 volt saw. One runs to a electrical box with dual receptacles mounted on the side of the saw and one is unused at the present time. It not connected at either end.
I know that code says not to run romex in PVC but since the PVC is sufficiently oversized, I have no concerns about overheating. To meet code, I think you would have to run metal conduit and separate wires. BTW, I live in a very rural area with no inspections.
Instead of putting in a fixed outlet and conduit, you may want to consider installing a trench in the concrete and cover it with either aluminum or PVC removable grates, depending on how wide the trench was. This will give you the ability to relocate the equipment in the future.
Tim, I popped over here from breaktime ....
Congratulations on the new shop, it sonds like it will be very clean, warm and well thought out.
I say definitely put power into the floor while you've got the chance. Overhead power is nice for using routers and jigsaws etc., but for a tablesaw, overhead is the LAST place I would opt to plug in. Think about it.
Someone in this thread recommended against casting an outlet in the slab because it would be "much harder to move" than under a wood floor. That's true...but why would you want to MOVE an outlet? If you want them anywhere else Just ADD outlets. Personally I would have outlets in the floor, walls AND ceiling.
Regarding the placement for the floor- don't obsess over the permanence, just install two or three junction boxes with separate conduit running to a box in the wall. You don't even have to wire them until you need to, but you might as well. Use a good GFI for your primary location, and cover unused boxes with metal dummy plates for a nice flat look.
As far as the dust collection goes, I would actually be more inclined to keep that "above ground" A dc is something that you are likely to want to reconfigure/ upgrade, or at least be able to get inside of easily.
Another thing to consider is the four inch void in the slab where the dc cuts through, and how it might interfere with the structural integrity or at least the eveness of the radient heating system.
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