everyone has power tools in their shop but most woodworkers struggle with power solutions. even magazine articles are vague and getting answers at the home depot electrical dept. is like the blind leading the blind.
maybe i can help you. i am so new to woodworking i can’t figure out why an open top mug of coffee starts to taste like wood after an hour working in my shop. I am however an industrial electrican at the plywood veneer plant in our town.
please keep your safety in mind and never work on any energized equipment. ever!for some simple jobs (ie//ballast changes) you can do it yourself but for anything involved at all hire an electrical contractor.
first some questions i know many have.
lighting: ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
incandescent bulbs are lousy. weak light and terrible economy. compact fluorescents are better. tube fluorescents are best for the shop.
the technology time line is like this T12 older, T8 current, T5 newest. remember you want the light while you hate to pay for energy. all these lamps put out similar amounts of light but they use different amounts of energy to get there. for example a T12 is typically 40 watts a T8 is typically 32. so four two lampers in a T12 lamp would use 320 watts and in a T8 would use 256watts. similar amount of light now but different efficiency. T5’s are probably cost prohibitive right now.
ballasts are specific to the lamp. ie// a T12 ballast for T12 lamp ie// two,three or four lamps. etc. magnetic ballasts can hum (think joe versus the volcano….) electronic ballasts are practically silent. if your shop is unheated and you live somewhere it gets cold (like where i live) you need a “high output ” type fixture and lamps or it may be a cranky starter below freezing. if your light dies try changing the tubes first (all the tubes…) then go after the ballast. the ballast is easy to change as are the lampholders if they break (called tombstones in the electrical department) just turn the power off! make sure you get the right type of ballast ie// two tube T8 to replace two tube T8. watch out for cheap used fixtures with 277 or 347 volt ballasts, they won’t work on 120 volt house services.
lamps for fluorescent fixtures come in a wide variety of spectrums. that is they have different colored light outputs. they distinguish this with a KELVIN number. higher K numbers give off a whiter crisper light. look for 4000K. the spectrum is sometimes identified by trade names like “cool white” ” warm white” or “daylight deluxe” stay away from warm white as this is a low K and its a dull warmer tone like an incandescent.
keep whatever lights you have in a shop on their own circuit to avoid trouble. if you are planning it out for a new shop just keep in mind the typical 15 amp circuit is good for like 1400 watts or 12amps. compare the rating of the fixture for amps or approximate the watts on a per lamp basis
motors: +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
motors basically work really hard and pulls lots of power to get started (think the lights dim as you pull the trigger on your skil saw) after it gets going it pulls its rated power and maybe a bit more periodically if you work it hard (feed rate, hard material etc) because of this you should keep machines one per circuit WHILE THEY RUN. you can run your table saw and your jointer on the same circuit if they don’t work at the same time (like in a one man hobbyists shop) you will want your dust collector on its own same goes for the beer fridge as they will run while other machines are running. keep utility plugs (like for battery chargers etc) and lighting away from motor loads. plugging in a drill charger and a planer on the same circuit will be hard on both items when the planer starts and as it does its work.
if your shop is full of plugs but you don’t know which ones are on which circuit breaker you can find out whats going on like this. turn off ALL the breakers and plug in a radio to any plug. turn on breakers on then off again until the radio comes on then stop. with that one breaker on move the radio around to all the plugs. number each live plug with a pen. use the number of the breaker’s position in the panel (the breakers are numbered in order on the lid of the panel). after you have found all the live plugs (on that one breaker) leave the radio in an unnumbered plug and go back to the panel. continue on with this process of elimination until each plug is numbered with its breakers position. there can be several plugs on a breaker. make sure you only RUN one machine per (circuit breaker/group of plugs). as i mentioned machines that are not used at the same time may be on the same circuit. lights are best alone but can share with utility plugs that service smaller loads like chargers or radios etc. if you keep machines seperated like this nuisance trips should be no more trouble.
three phase machines. some larger machines may have three phase motors. house services are single phase. three phase machines will not run on single phase.this doesn’t mean you can’t have the shaper of your dreams or capitalize on a screaming deal on a cabinet saw if the machines are three phase. there are devices you can get your electrican to install to make three phase from a single phase source. one is called an “add-a-phase” system. another item that can do this are some types of “variable frequency drive”. there is sometimes a possibility of exchanging the motor outright. you will need an electrician to do this work and the systems have an associated cost (investigate this cost before you buy……). i just want you to know its possible in case of big dreams or great deals.
new shops++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
its best when planning out your shop to collect all the specifications of the machines you have or plan to get and provide this to your electrician along with their location. that way he can give you what you need during the construction phase. if you’re not sure add more to the plan in case. adding plugs during construction is relatively cheap.adding plugs after construction is much more difficult for the electrican and will be much more expensive for you. A dedicated subpanel is great. service entrance panels have a main breaker in them and can be used as a subpanel. they are cheap at home depot or a wholesaler as they are sold in huge quantities. you can often get a 100 amp service entrance panel with room for 32 breakers for less than a 60 amp eight breaker loadcenter. the service entrance panels main breaker is also a great way to “lock out” your whole shop with the flip of that one breaker if you have little kids who like to push big green buttons in your house.
if you have any problems with electrical in your shop let me know maybe i can helpyou find the answer. just post to this knot. as far as woodworking problems i can’t help ….I need help!
Replies
Ryan,
Now we've got a couple knowledgeable electrical knotheads on board. Welcome!
I'm semi-competent when it comes to electricity. I wired my shop and can rewire tools from 110V to 220V. One recurring problem I have though, is that when the temperature gets hot (say, 30 degrees Celsius), certain breakers tend to trip more easily. There is one in particular, on which we run the microwave. For what it's worth, the sub panel is in the garage which gets quite warm.
I have a theory as to why your coffee starts to taste funny. But relax. Fiber is good for you.
Chris @ www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com
- Success is not the key to happines. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
Thanks for the info - and Welcome Aboard.
Frosty
"I sometimes think we consider the good fortune of the early bird and overlook the bad fortune of the early worm." FDR - 1922
"some larger machines may have three phase motors. house services are single phase. three phase machines will not run on single phase"
Also many smaller machines can be three phase.
Actually a three phase machine can run on single phase power. A static converter is a perfect example of this. It uses a capacitor to generate the third leg to start the machine but the machine actually runs on 220 volts single phase. It gives 1/3 less power because of the missing leg. Basically the motor has enough momentum to keep by passing the missing leg.
The 4 basic three phase options are
Static converters...single machines, limited but cheap.
Rotary Converters...good for multiple machines.
Variable Frequency Drives...good for one machine but gives soft start, variable speed, soft stop.
Phase Perfect...The latest...electronic but no bells and whistles like a VFD, Multiple machines.
I think electical questions are best handled by electrical forums or even better by one's local motor repair shop or industrial electrician. Wood forums should stick to wood related questions.
Edited 6/30/2008 9:58 am ET by RickL
I think Ryan's comments were welcome and relevant to woodworking. The last place I want to have to go look for electrical tips (if I'm using the internet) is an electrician's forum. Man they are so over-protective with information. At least, they haven't been much help to me.
Welcome Ryan.
You got it backarse words---static for multiple--rotary for single--Master electrician in silicon valley area--30 years in trade--union trained 3rd generation too! Compact Flourescent lamps (CFC) vs. incandescent; incandescent only has the solder for toxic parts--CFC's have lots of toxics--phosphers on inside lamp surface-mercury--solder--electronics----non-reusable plastic to name a few.
"You got it backarse words---static for multiple--rotary for single"
I'm afraid you have it backwards
Static converters are single machine applications.
Rotary converters can run multiple machines.
Check your technical info.
All I can say is that if your are going to give a sermon, you had better make sure your facts are correct. Quoting credentials after a major faux pas just makes it worse.
With fluorescent lighting one cannot simply add up the lamp watts X the # of lamps and hope to have a accurate number of the watts consumed, since the the ballast does also consume power the ballast label must be consulted and the voltage (120 volts) X the amperes will equal the total. 110,220.... are obsolete voltages and should not be used in calcs. UNLESS the piece of equipment is actually rated as such. standard voltage for residental is 120/240 volts 115,230.... are rated voltages for motors etc.
Last rant, a static converter is for a single motor & a rotary phase convertor (RPC) is capable of handling multiple motors if you wish to learn more a good place to ask is here. http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/forumdisplay.php?f=11
Personally I fiond the old school method the best place to start research (before the internet). http://phase-a-matic.com/ Go to the manufacturers. Ronk, Kay and the dozen or so other brands. VFD's are another matter. http://www.factorymation.com and the 4th and newest phase conversion method... http://www.phaseperfect.com
The practical machinist is a good lead however. The metal workers are always ahead in the phase conversion technology.
The internet is cool but filled with just as much bad and misleading info as good. For most it's hard to discern the difference.
As a fellow trained and licensed as an electrician, your comments are most welcome. Some of the more divisive discussions on this board result from electrical discussions.
With respect to Rick, this is a perfect forum for such discussions, as ignorance of how modern AC electrical distributions function and the difference between the physics of electrical flow and code requirements are widespread. Most of us are extreme do-it-yourselfers, and a lot of individuals choose to wire their own shop, whether they've the expertise or not.
Most woodworking machines can badly injure (or possibly kill) you, but you can see the spinning blade and you've at least the opportunity to avoid it. Electrical accidents kill instantly, with no warning, and no visible signs of danger, which is why most of the NEC requirements exist. Having someone with the expertise to answer code questions is most welcome.
Welcome aboard, Ryan (and by the way - Bed Bath and Beyond sells a really cool heated coffee mug made of stainless with a cover - beats choking down mahogany chips!)
yeah thanks dkellernc
i don't really want to encourage people to try things electrically at home but my experience is that people who have a home shop are the do it yourself type. safety is number one but I've helped lots of people unload overloaded circuits, stressed why they need thermal overloads on that three horse compressor motor not just some loomex and a lightswitch etc. electrical problems are not part of the fun of woodworking so i thought i'd toss this out there so people could get back to problems that are more fun.....like glue-up!
Ryan,
Good to have you here and thanks for offering to help.
You might be surprised at some of the responses you get, though.
I have a strong background in electrical power, from the NEC to IEEE and ANSI standards. I'm experienced with voltages from 110 V to 400 kV. I was a journeyman electrician for many years before I earned my electrical engineering degree. I've been a "sparky" for almost 40 years.
I don't often reply to electrical questions here anymore. After getting flamed a few times for advocating doing things the right way, according to the NEC and in a craftman like manner it's just not worth my serenity anymore.
So, I figure, let those who are too mentally challenged to take expert advice utilize their fire and health insurance. For the rest of the "knotheads", (no disrespect intended), my advise stands; "If a job is worth doing it's worth doing well."
yeah northhouguy i just thought i'd lay that out there. i've been to visit more shops at night to see more bad wiring than anyone should be made to see. i don't know where to stop the suggestions because people can hurt themselves or burn down their shop, i sure don't want to coax anyone in over their heads.. that being said many people will be faced with tripped breakers or having to rewire a motor for the higher voltage or changing their motor out to something decent like baldor from what ships from the east. so far nobody asked for anyhelp help just some people saying hello and one guy to beak off, not you another guy. whatever. if one guy asks and i convice him to put in a motor rated toggle with an overload heater instead of a cheap lightswitch that would be good. if not i'll just take from the knots because i need a lot of help. i'm new to woodworking and theres a lot of loose joinery in my future.
cheers ryan
I definitely appreciate all the info, many thanks. My father in law is a retired master electrician but he lives in Virginia and I'm in Colorado, and I can't tell you how many times I've had him on the phone talking me through some minor wiring activity or other. My next door neighbor is an EE. I've got all the electrical expertise I need around me.I am about to put my garage shop on a dedicated sub panel and while I am a DIY nut, I stop short of thinking I can do electrical work by myself. I call my FIL, I bring over my NDN, I hire an electrician. Shop wiring is something that must be done right, bottom line. Have it done right, by code, by someone who knows what they're doing. Period, end of comment. No excuses.Off my soapbox now, I think electrical knowledge is something all WW-ers need, just like we need knowledge of hand tools, sanding, finishing, sharpening, et al. I'd be interested in seeing more posts along this thread or an updated article talking about wiring a shop, the one FWW has is a bit dated IMHO.Thanks--Erik
Basic shop electrical work is not hard to do right. It is real easy to do it wrong and burn your shop down. My shop is done wrong but I'm going to fix it. I just re-wired a house including a sub-panel and I did a lot of reading and cruised Breaktime and Knots to filter all the info out there. Figuring out the right wire/breaker sizes, number of plugs, black to brass, etc can be a little complicated but do-able. I found a couple of good user friendly books on home wiring at the used book store. They were great for wiring 3 and 4 way switches.
Any doubts or permit issues hire a pro.
I recently put a 60-amp sub-panel in my garage and ran 6-3 shielded cable for the 80 foot run through my foundation wall into the basement. I also ran the necessary conduit for surface mounted fixtures and pulled 8 and 10-gauge wiring for 3 circuits. I then called in a retired master electrician to actually make the connections and review everything for code. My homework paid off and I didn't have to change a thing. I'm confident that I could have made the necessary hookups, but why take the chance? It ain't rocket surgery, but a single mistake can cause a lot of damage down the road.Regards,Ron
Did you use a typical housing type aluminum 6/3 cable? I f so--your master electrician and you screwed up--acording to the NEC table #310-16 shows aluminum is rated at only 50 amps at 30 degrees Celcuis in a cable----if you used a cable rated at a higher temperature--you must de-rate the wire for the rating on your circuit breaker which is 75 degrees. And if you did use the wrong cable--and have a fire as a result--your insurance will NOT have to pay. Get a permit too---if you do sell your house--you might have to rip it out as it is NOT reported to the city 's planning dept records.
You shouldn't assume that I used aluminum wiring. I used 6-3 shielded copper cable that was designed for underground use with a thick, corded neoprene or plastic shielding. No metal anywhere in the cable except for the actual wiring. Very stiff and heavy stuff to bend around corners and push/pull through floor joists! Like I said in my original post, I did my homework. I also had a permit and it was signed off.Edited 7/16/2008 7:17 pm ET by RonInOttawaEdited 7/16/2008 7:18 pm ET by RonInOttawa
Edited 7/16/2008 7:19 pm ET by RonInOttawa
I posted that "IF" you used aluminum--and that cable you used through wood is NOT approved for going through wood----expanding and contracting wood can abraid the neoprene jacket.--i.e --summer and winter seasons--wood does move~~~
I drilled 2" holes through 20 floor joists a minimum of 3" from the bottom edge of each joist. The cable is about 1 1/2" in diameter, and the inspector looked at each joist. I'm having trouble envisioning how the wood could move enough to cause any friction or wear on the sheathing, but if it is an issue I can always put some teflon tape on the lower side of the holes. The cable may well last longer than the house! :<))Ron
You missed your calling--you show that you would make one fine "sparky"--hats off to a mechanic in the trade. ;-}
"Did you use a typical housing type aluminum 6/3 cable? I f so--your master electrician and you screwed up--acording to the NEC table #310-16 shows aluminum is rated at only 50 amps at 30 degrees Celcuis in a cable----if you used a cable rated at a higher temperature--you must de-rate the wire for the rating on your circuit breaker which is 75 degrees. And if you did use the wrong cable--and have a fire as a result--your insurance will NOT have to pay. Get a permit too---if you do sell your house--you might have to rip it out as it is NOT reported to the city 's planning dept records."
I think posts like this are the reason many folks avoid asking electrical questions on this forum. They get a sermon every time. I asked once, won't do it again.
Some of you act like electricity is equal to rocket science in difficulty. I know it's not something to take lightly, and mistakes with electricity are very costly and unforgiving. However, just because you have a little electrical know-how, please don't assume that the average Joe Handyman can't study up on it and learn how to do basic wiring projects in their basement or house. If we wanted to be preached at we'd go to a political forum.
I am also an electrician, 25+ years 15 as a master. Currently working for the largest city in north west WA as an electrical inspector. I will keep an eye on this thread and help if I can.
Edited 7/18/2008 12:47 am ET by DuaneR
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