Replies

1. 
   Peter36 | Mar 10, 2005 10:21pm | #1

   Shape of things to come Jay.

1. 
   jaypoe | Mar 11, 2005 12:10am | #3

   I believe you are referring to either the WHM purchase of Powermatic or the move to internet sales like Amazon. I whole heartedly agree with the notion that a purchase from a reputable local retailer is preferred. This is my first internet purchase of large item and I have always preferred to support my local small business. If I could have found a better local business to buy from I would have. My $300 savings is now a wash and I still have paid for the most expensive 10” cabinet saw and its not running. UUUHHHGGG!

    

1. 
   Peter36 | Mar 11, 2005 12:27am | #4

   The first one.......the purchase of Powermatic. Sad.

1. 
   jaypoe | Mar 11, 2005 12:36am | #5

   I came to that conclusion today when I remembered talking to someone from WHM who new nothing about PM. I realize that I have to go through a company who knows as much about PM as they do about the imported products they sell. More "company" and less tool manufacturer. Uhge! Should have saved myself $$$ and bought a Jet. I almost bought General or Uni. Thinking I should have.

1. 
   Jellyrug | Mar 11, 2005 02:03am | #6

   Jay,

   Good job posting here, this will help Powermatic to either fix their company, or lose more sales to those who have proven their capability.

   I know there was a bad reputation some years back, but today Grizzly seems to have an excellent reputation. Personally, my experience with them has only been a pleasure.

   Have you considered them?

   I would ask for my money back and purchase somewhere else. Teach them a lesson!

   I personally run large manufacturing here in the US and recently had a 0.007% defect rate at a customer. The end result is me trying every trick in the book, not having to take back around $250,000 worth of product. Industry is tightening up, so should you.

2. 
   jaypoe | Mar 11, 2005 02:52am | #7

   My posts are not an attemp to give a bad opinion of either company but to get an understanding of whats going wrong, learn of other experiences that may be similar to my own and to find a resolution, QUICKLY! Time is money and every minute spent on this is money lost. An allready expensive saw is begining to cost me a fortune. Should have been cutting weeks ago!

3. 
   Jellyrug | Mar 11, 2005 03:07am | #8

   Jay,

   What's going wrong, is simply the cut back of technical overhead, who should be checking design and quality, as well as provide support and a sales team trying to import product, package it and sell it.

   The resolution is not to purchase from these companies, specially if they had a second chance and again got it wrong.

   A good customer, is one who complains and tries to rectify the problem. You are a good customer.

   A bad customer, is someone who just turns around and goes somewhere else.

   After a second chance, I become a bad customer.

   I tried to purchase a lathe from these guys (WMH) through one of their many brokers who share a cut in profit for doing almost nothing (Amazon, International Tool etc.), they first promised a two week delivery, then remained quite, did nothing, I had to phone, the two weeks became four weeks and I went somewhere else to get my lathe delivered at my door three days later.

   End of story, they won't see me again.

   I know what it takes to satisfy customers, I do it every day and I won't tolerate any less from my suppliers.

   Edited 3/10/2005 7:17 pm ET by Jellyrug

   Edited 3/10/2005 7:19 pm ET by Jellyrug

4. 
   AndyE | Mar 11, 2005 03:49am | #9

   I am saddened to hear all this about PM. I have a 66, an 8" jointer, 12" planer, and 18" bandsaw of thiers bought over the last few years. The new tools were performing well after the initial setup and the one I bought used (the BS and jointer), just need a dusting and minor tweak after putting them back together. The BS needs new tires. Still trying to choose. Overall I am very happy with all.I think the fact that you give them a second chance disallows you to become a bad customer. A bad customer would recieve a tool with a problem, call the company, scream and yell, return the tool, get a replacement, scream and yell some more, return it, and then go somewhere else. As I am sure you know there is a difference between being a bad customer and expecting to get your moneys worth. There are ways to let companies know they have problems. Not getting return customers should be a big one.Perhaps I should look somewhere else for my lathe. Haven't had any luck in the classifieds. AndyE

5. 
   Jellyrug | Mar 12, 2005 02:19am | #25

   What size lathe are you planning to buy?

6. 
   AndyE | Mar 12, 2005 05:59am | #27

   Some thing big enough to do chair spindles on and powerful enough to turn a good sized bowl and a few burls. I have thought of making one, buy a motor, laminate a beam, work out a pulley system, or just put one of the kids on a bike attached to it, but I don't think that would be the best solution. A Conover would be a great find, but I have thought about a PM or the Delta X5. Still a way off but you never know. Seems there is always something I am tinkering with that includes the thought "if I had a lathe I could knock one of those out". I guess that's how it always starts.Andy

7. 
   jaypoe | Mar 11, 2005 03:50am | #10

   Our loss of choices is becoming scarey. Soon we will only have WHM, Wall Mart and Home Depot. Everyone will be driving Hyundias, living in condos built of Home Depot quality product, eating McDonalds and filling the pockets of the 5%ers. Uhge! Setting the tone for a major collapes. I always wondered what it was like to live thru depression. I believe I will get my chance. MOOOOOOO MOOOOOOO!

8. 
   Jellyrug | Mar 11, 2005 04:04am | #13

   Let's hope the upside of a weaker Dollar is more local manufacture, as the imports now become less competitive. Perhaps there is a light at the end of the tunnel.

9. 
   jaypoe | Mar 11, 2005 05:37am | #14

   The light at the end of the tunnel happens to have been bought at H-D and the switch has been acting up.

2. 
   Jimma | Mar 10, 2005 10:21pm | #2

   Call those guys and find out where the nearest service office is and how to authorize a warranty call.

3. 
   migraine | Mar 11, 2005 03:50am | #11

   One thing that I have found out in buying machinery, large and small is that buying it from a local company has no benefit unless they have a excellent service division in their store.  So, as to buying it from ToolCrib, Amazon, or other internet sales, the service is "almost the same"  Now, buying it from Woodworkers supply, or Rockler, I don't think it makes any difference as to where you buy it, they don't do repairs.  The problem is not having it repaired, but the hastle in getting it to and from being repaired, plus you down time.

   One time, I bought a sliding saw from a Machinery Company in SoCal and had a problem with the trunnions, undercarriage not aligned correctly.  Their repair guy said he fixed it.  When I used it next, it was out again. I later went back and fixed it myself.  Sometimes this is just what you have to do.

   By the way, Jet now owns Powermatic, or something like that.

4. 
   JMartinsky | Mar 11, 2005 03:58am | #12

   Dear Jay,
   That is disappointing. I bought my PM66 from amazon three or four years ago and the whole thing was stellar. Send it back, get your money back and spend it with a company who deals with quality. It sounds like a PM problem, that's too bad. I have a Uni in my shop as well and there is no comparison, the PM is the better machine. If I were you I would be looking at "Sawstop", General, or one of Wilke's machines. That really is disappointing. A major purchase (in my book ) and you are not being served. I wouldn't try for three. Let us know how it goes.

   John

5. 
   Mutinyguy | Mar 11, 2005 06:58am | #15

   Powermatics are not the same machines they were several years ago. Check out the General 350 or 650. IMHO the best 10" cabinet saw around.

   Jim

1. 
   jaypoe | Mar 11, 2005 07:08am | #16

   I have yet to form an opinion on PM. I have simply stated in my posts that I am having problems. I am looking for answers and an expedient resolve. I am the first to give credit when credit is due and the folks I spoke with at PM have been willing to help with my problems. I was able to speak to an actual person on the phone and they all said you will be taken care of. While PM was at fault with some of the issues, the 66 is still the saw I want in my shop. I just hope I can crawl through and out of the mud without too much loss. I am on my second unit and still not a cut. I should add also that Amazon is willing to resolve this issue without having to pulling teeth but where I really want to be is in the shop building with my new saw, providing for my family, not e-mailing (endless messaging too), calling, waiting, scheduling pick-ups and drop offs. I just want to cut wood!<!----><!---->

1. 
   Mutinyguy | Mar 11, 2005 07:14am | #17

   If the Powermatic is the saw you want can you purchase locally? That way you can check the saw out before you buy.

   Jim

1. 
   jaypoe | Mar 11, 2005 05:55pm | #18

   Tech guy coming Monday. Hope he can fix/adjust it to my satisfaction.

1. 
   Jellyrug | Mar 11, 2005 07:00pm | #19

   Jay,

   Let us know the outcome after Monday.

   Looks as if the are standing behind their product, a good sign.

2. 
   Jimma | Mar 11, 2005 11:07pm | #20

   Is that tech guy a local, someone the company is sending on their behalf, or is he a rep from a dealer? Just curious to see how they are dealing with your problem.

3. 
   jaypoe | Mar 11, 2005 11:35pm | #21

   Ideal something from Philly area. Not sure of there affiliation with PM. I planned to post a message asking if anyone has dealt with them.

4. 
   Jimma | Mar 12, 2005 12:02am | #23

   Good luck. I love my PM-66. It's about six years old. Bought new from upstate NY by phone. Keep us posted.

5. 
   jaypoe | Mar 12, 2005 01:00am | #24

   I will post an update after the issue has been either resolved or abandoned. I appreciate the great help I have had dealing with this frustrating issue from all who have posted. The "connected" community, when used constructivley, is a wonderful and powerful force. Thanks again.

6. 
   Turbo | Mar 12, 2005 04:59am | #26

   Dear Jay, Sorry to hear you are having problems w/ your PM66. Perhaps your technical person figured out your problems. If he did not, here is what I did. I bought a new PM66. There were a few things I just couldn't figure out. I went to a local commercial woodworking shop. I asked if there was a person who was familiar w/ PM66s. They used them in their shop of 20 cabinetmakers. Though the initial person I met was a little rough in his approach, after listening for a while, he referred me to one of his cabinetmakers. He visited my shop, brought squares, etc., did a few adjustments, and it has worked fine since then. He was cordial, and he required no reimbursement, though I gave him some cash for his time. Best of luck. I would appreciate your f/u in Knots.

7. 
   doorwhore | Mar 12, 2005 06:41am | #28

   I bought a 66 two years ago, I had wanted that saw more than oxygen since the 8th grade, like 30 years ago. I purchased it from the local dealer although I could have saved some bucks online. The 2 week process of assembling the saw came close to making me the lead story on the news at 6 and 11. The motor would not start due to the fact that some wires had come loose from thier terminals and one was reversed. that took a day to get an answer for.Now of course work which had been slow was now 14hr days 7 days a week,typical.To make this short every step as shown in the assembly instructions there was a problem, the ext. wings would not line up with holes in the table casting, the machining on the edges was rough,around the throat plate there was a burr that sliced the sh*t out of my finger.The miter gauge slots were not much better, the guide rails for the rip fence had misaligned holes. The dealer was worthless as far as help, his vendor even more so and had the BALLS to start bitching at me for not calling him back immediatly after waiting for him to return my calls for a couple of days. Get out the rip fence, screw the locking lever, why wont it go on? Because the casting is cracked.When I returned to the dealer they must have told him I was coming in because I saw him jumping in his car and split. Ater about 2 weeks of calling every day I finally got someone from WMH to return my calls, I spoke to a guy who I know after I was done had to be taken to local burn unit because his had been melted.I was pissed and still was told I would have to wait for someone to comeback from vacation. I also had bought the 8" jointer the same time as the saw so there was a couple of dollars involved. The poor guy who finally did call me back had great timing,I was trying to put the dado tp insert in and it would not fit.All in all I do have to give this guy credit for dealing with me and being courteous and doing everything he could because at this point I was definately a flamming assh*le and he did   everything he could to fix things. It turned out he had been at PM for like 40yrs and hated what it had become.I am happy with the saw now but it was kinda like the first time you get laid, your expecting something better, Mike 

8. 
   Jimma | Mar 12, 2005 08:10pm | #29

   The first time you got laid, did you have to call for outside help?

9. 
   AndyE | Mar 12, 2005 09:05pm | #30

   As I recall the instructions on that one were pretty clear.

10. 
    Jimma | Mar 12, 2005 10:11pm | #31

    You mean it just came to you?

11. 
    AndyE | Mar 13, 2005 02:37am | #32

    Actually, yes. 3am knock on the door. I was in college. (late bloomer). I opened the door and in she walked. No one said a word. All I had to do was follow. I was almost as surprised as my roomates.

12. 
    Vertigo | Mar 13, 2005 06:25am | #33

    Hello Jay,

    I just went to a Woodcraft store today to look over a PM66. It is nowhere close to the PM66 I have which is about 6-8 years old. Mind you I had all kinds of troubles with mine and had a machine shop do it all over again.

    I couldn't imagine owning the current model, walk right by it, thats what I would do.

    The pinions are clearly inferior, the handles are cheap plastic with sharp edges made in China, the mag starter is made in China, God only knows what else they cheated on.

    Good luck, I feel for you.

    CP

    Edited 3/12/2005 10:26 pm ET by cp

13. 
    JMartinsky | Mar 13, 2005 06:30am | #34

    I knew that I should of gone to college!John

14. 
    Jellyrug | Mar 13, 2005 10:07am | #35

    LOL..................

6. 
   Vertigo | Mar 11, 2005 11:44pm | #22

   There was another discussion that I responded to about the Powermatic 66.

   I had mine completely rebuilt to get it right. Sorry to hear they are still having problems, but I would only consider the following.

   Used Inca if you can find one.

   Laguna TS

   Mini Max

   Felder

   Unisaw

   and last place a General, although it is hit or miss with General as well. I had their 8" jointer & 14" planer, both Canadian made about 6 years ago and both were so whacked out that I flew to Drummondville QE and sat down with this guy named Tony. I toured the plant which is I would guess about 100,000 SF with 2 light bulbs in it....you get the point.

   
   

   ---

   Edited 3/11/2005 3:51 pm ET by cp