Hey guys (and gals)
Having used a benchtop saw (which is a great machine that lacks the capacity I need) for too long, I am starting to look into the larger, more robust cabinet saws. The first saw that comes to mind is the Powermatic 66. I would love to hear from any of you out there who own this saw. Also does anybody know approximently how much one with a 5 hp 1 ph motor, 7′ rales, router lift and cabinet, and sliding table costs? I know the stock 3 horse saw is about 2000, but I have no clue about one thats “loaded”. If I am going to spend this much, should I look at a 12 inch saw?…..or is it just me in that they can not take as many accesories. Hows the fence? Its a bessy clone, but is it not as great as the rest of the saw. Just wondering.
Thanks for your time
Edited 1/28/2005 12:08 pm ET by Bunyan
Replies
Hi,
I just bought a used PM66 with 50" fence. 3hp 1 phase. I upgraded from a contractors saw and am so happy with it! I paid $1500 and got a good blade, 8" dado set and a nice runout table as well as an HTC roller stand. Many say I paid too much so you might want to check the used market before you jump on anything.
I've used it on some 8/4 but mostly 4/4 so far with good results. I can't imagine needing more saw for quite some time.
Mine has the Accu-fence and it's basically a Beismeyer. It's better though as you can easily change the actual faces of the fence easily.
This one was bought new in '97. Made in USA. I know they recently were bought by Jets parent co. and don't know if quality has suffered.
Good luck,
Notrix
I've had a PM 66 for about six years -- 3 HP, 10-inch blade, long table, no router. No problems. If I can help, let me know.
PM66 5hp three years, all around dynamite. the fence is EXCELLENT. I set it once three years ago and that's all it ever needed. I am a one man shop so that saw is used commercially. That being said I have a couple of suggestions.
1. Check out the "Sawstop" machines (http://www.sawstop.com/home.htm). They appear to be PM clones with some very significant safety systems. This would be my first choice in this price range.
2. Check out the "Bridgewood" line from (http://www.wilkemachinery.com/OnlineCatalogDetailResults4.tpl?SearchDetail=309931812811894&PreviousCategory=Bridgewood%20Tilting%20Arbor%20Table%20Saw&RecNum=0) . PM clone, less money, and I think it comes assembled. Definitely worth a call.
3. Really want to spend some $? Check out (http://www.minimax-usa.com/) Combination machine: 12" Sliding Tablesaw ( a real one, not Excaliber) with scoring blade, shaper, planer, jointer. At least send for the tape.
4. If all else fails:http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B0000225S4/qid=1106967912/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/002-6172419-1888852?v=glance&s=hi
Amazon lists the PM66 with Excaliber sliding table for $3200.00 they get about $200.00 for the router lift.
Good Luck!
John
Edited 1/29/2005 11:31 am ET by JMartinsky
Thanks for the recomendations! I have two problems with the Bridgewood line, I hear the fence isnt up to par, and why not go "made in the USA" if you can? Also, about saw stop, isnt it just a gimmick. The saw costs about as much as the average cabinet saw, but has all of those safty features, which to me, means that the saw isnt as good of a actual sawing machine. This is just a theory, not scientific evidence. Im not saying your wrong, or argueing, I just want to hear more. One thing about powermatic is their track record. Also, to everybody out there, About outfeed support, shop built or store bought?
Thanks again!
Dear Bunyan,
I can't speak to the Bridgewood's fence, although I've never hear anything but praises on this forum , for their quality and service in general. The "Sawstop" is an unknown, given, but I am considering replacing my PM with one. I am in CT and they are checking with a couple of owners to see if I can check out their saws. As far as PM goes, I am almost certain they are made in Taiwan. The whole "Made in the USA" thing is about done. IMHO. There are quality machines coming out of Taiwan, don't get me wrong, but if you look closely at the Bridgewood, Jet, PM and even Sawstop, I think you'll see some real similarities. Like they are all made in the same factory.
Getting back to "Sawstop", I hear where you're going, but I have followed Sawstop for a couple of years now and know that they were unable to license their system to other manufacturers, they cited retooling costs. So Sawstop is now having their own saws manufactured, I wouldn't discount their machines based on price alone.
It sounds like you want a PM, that's fine, you won't be disappointed, as for outfeed tables, I use a Unisaw. :-)Goiod Luck!John
Edited 1/29/2005 11:33 am ET by JMartinsky
Dear Bunyan,
I am wrong! My PM has the big old "Made In The USA" sticker on it. There you go, American made!John
You actually use an old unisaw for outfeed support?
Dear Bunyan,
It is a newer (3-5 yrs) Unisaw that I am "storing" for a friend. It is interesting to see the Delta up against the PM. The PM is bigger, heavier and its fit & finish are definitely better. Its probably an excellent saw, but right now it is an outfeed table. I may put my dado setup in it, although, its not a big deal to swap out the blade(s) on the PM and I do like the PM!
A word of caution, like yourself, I graduated from benchtop to cabinet saw and I found out a few things. 1. Unlike a benchtop, a cabinet saw does not give any audible indications that it is about to throw something at you. If you overload the saw, you won't stop the blade, or even slow it down. I have developed some bad habits using benchtops for twenty years. One is knowing that I can overpower the saw. If I really get in trouble, I can make it trip the breaker or bull the piece out of the saw. Not so, or even close on a cabinet saw.2. Because they are relatively quiet, (a huge plus) it is easy to get complacent with them. There are several threads containing bad experiences with Tablesaws on this Forum, posted by people with far more talent and skill than I posses. Keep your hands off of the table.3. I do not own a bandsaw, but I will in the near future for ripping thick stock. Although the PM can easily rip anything you want to throw at it, I have grown leery of ripping solid stock, and will shift my thicker (over 5/4) ripping to the BS. Just MHO. One of my reasons for the PM was that I was sick of tripping breakers and bogging down the benchtops with thick rips. I have further refined my thinking to include the PM as more of a "panel saw", than anything else. That is why, in retrospect, I think that I could get by with less saw. Now there are plenty of people on this forum who do all kinds of fancy things with a TS. I just don't. Again, twenty years experience, knowing my skill level and MHO.4. A Cabinet saw is safer than a benchtop (BT) in that, it is far more stable, more powerful, and will be far more consistent than a BT. It does have its own learning curve.Good Luck!John
Bunyan,
SawStop isn't a gimmick saw. They started with a brake that stops the blade when it contacts human flesh to turn an ER visit into a trip to the Band-Aid box. They understood that safety alone doesn't sell, so they looked very carefully and critically at many North American and European saws. Their goal was to pull together the best construction and features into a saw that would be a good choice even without the blade brake. It's too early too tell how the company will work out long term, but the saw looks pretty good.
The PM66 costs more because it's made in America (the SawStop is made in Taiwan by Geetech). The SawStop costs more because there is simply more iron, steel, machining, and engineering in it. It's a good bit heavier than the PM. The riving knife carriage and blade brake add quite a few parts. The PM66 costs more because its price has to feed a huge corporate structure and pay for lots of marketing and middlemen. The SawStop costs more because they don't have an efficient distribution system yet. The bottom line: At this point the SawStop is more expensive than a comparably equipped PM66.
You might want to do some research some before writing off the SawStop. I've had mine for almost two months, and am very impressed. It's a massive, smooth, precise, and well designed saw - a real pleasure to work with. There are only about 200 out in shops so far. Reports from real users are starting to trickle in, many from professional shops and private cabinet saw owners, and they are positive. The FWW review was a bust; all they wrote about was the brake. AW and Wood are working on reviews.
If you have any specific questions about the saw I can probably answer them, either from my working knowledge of the saw or by walking out to the shop and checking how mine works. I put up a fairly lengthy review here:
http://www.woodcentral.com/cgi-bin/readarticle.pl?dir=reviews&file=articles_484.shtml
Some have speculated that the SawStop Cabinet Saw IS the next PM66. The WMH Group should think seriously about buying SawStop and painting the saw PM yellow.
Regards, Dave
Edited 1/29/2005 11:03 pm ET by dwright
Dave, it's great to have a Sawstop owner right here! One thing I remember hearing about awhile back was accidental tripping of the mechanism. Was that a valid concern? If so, have they fixed it?forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Where did you get a 14 ball without numbers?
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
I don't remember. Maybe it's a billiard ball. I was missing one ball on the saw so i stuck one on and then I came accross another so I put the second on. They have a nice feel to them and add some character.
FG,
SawStop understands that consumers will have a very low tolerance for unjustified release of the brake since it damages the blade and uses up a $59 cartridge. They have worked hard to reduce that risk. Beta saws have been in operation since April 2004. Final production runs started shipping in early December 2004. As of this writing there might be about 200 in use. So far it looks like they solved the unjustified release issue. I haven't had any problems with mine. I haven't come across problem reports on the web - and it's not for lack of looking. There are at least 4 woodworkers other than myself who post on forums that have taken delivery of the saws. They all have good things to say about it.
About a month ago I asked Steve Gass if there had been any unjustified releases on non-beta saws. He replied that there had been one to his knowledge. A woodworker was cutting sheet goods that had an aluminum film label stuck to it. The label grounded the blade to the cast iron table top, which makes the brake release. I consider that to be operator error. Any material that will electrically connect the blade to the table or the operator should be cut in Bypass Mode.
Extremely wet PT wood, the kind that throws up spray as it's being cut, sometimes releases the brake. If you have suspicious wood like that, make the first cut in Bypass Mode. The control panel will flash a special pattern if the brake would have released. If you see that pattern, either set the wood aside to dry further or continue cutting in Bypass. If the pattern isn't shown then you can cut in Normal Mode.
Regards,
Dave
Very good review, You weren't kidding when you said that FWW blew it. You review is much more comprehensive. Thank you. I am surprised that they don't include a fence, though. That seems strange. Perhaps its a pricing thing, although I think most people will recognize the necessity!John
I think it's a pricing thing too. The saw isn't cheap, and setting up the pricing "a la carte" gives people the opportunity to control the damage. If you reuse your current fence, don't buy any spare or dado cartridges, and take delivery right at the trucking terminal the check is a whole lot smaller. It's kind of nice though to be able to order the exact configuration you want without having to decipher a confusing catalog. They offer more motor options than most manufacturers.
Bunyan,
I've had my 3 HP PM66 for three years and love it. No problems so far. Lots of power. Can't imagine needing more. I bought an extra table board and made an outfeed table.
Good luck!
TDF
Hi, Bunyan,
Bought a PM66 3HP version about 6 months ago -- upgraded from a old Jet contractor saw. Coudn't be happier with the purchase -- has done everything I could ask and more. I've compared pretty closely with a recent model unisaw, which a buddy just bought. Long story short: the unisaw has more convenience features (like a handy slot to hold your mitre gauge), while the PM is more industrial. Looks to me like the last saw I (or my son) will ever buy...
cbr
Hi cbr.
Did you get the 7' rales and or router lift/cabinet? Just wondering
Thanks
Considering the fact that we make things with our machinery, why not make an outfeed table, too? We can make it do whatever we want, specific to our needs and don't have to modify someone else's design. The materials are pretty cheap, readily available and if we don't know exactly how to do it, we can learn something along the way.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
got my pm 66 for a thousand dollars even. 3 hp single phase is unstoppable. Built my own router table. it's attached to the right side outfeed. Got an 11 foot fence with my saw as well. You will never regret spending money on this saw.
I bought a Powermatic 66 just three years ago, with a 3 HP Baldor motor.
The motor had some problms in the beginning, but it seemed to be running fine for he rest of the warranty period.
Bit wouldn't you know, the thing died last week; as we speak, it is in the shop of a Baldor service station.
The Jet/Powermatic people have been very nice, but technically, the motor is out of warranty, and it remains to be seen what they will do once the problem is diagnosed.
These motors cost about $500, and I think they ought to replace it.
If they don't, I am going to be one unhappy woodworker; I got rid of a Unisaw that had run perfectly for 25 years to "upgrade" to the P 66.
Wow- First bad thing ive heard about the 66
I would like to hear more,... and please let us know how it goes.
My name is Doug and I'm a Powermatic lover. There! They say the hardest step is admitting you have a problem.
Didn't have room in my shop for the big table version. So I ended up with the 3HP 30" fence setup for 1.8K. By the time I added the mobile base, tenoning jig, and a few zero clearance inserts - 2K. It's quiet, powerful, and has never needed adjustments re-tweaked after the initial setup with dial indicators. If you're switching from a benchtop saw to a PM 3HP, you're going to notice a HUGE increase in power. Can't fathom why you'd need the 5HP unless you plan on cutting vast amounts of very thick stock. Mine has never balked at resawing even tough gnarly pallet oak or Ipe at the max depth of cut. Plus it looks real nice sitting next to my PM jointer too.
I love the smell of sawdust in the morning.
Douglas is right about three things:
1. Admitting a problem is the first step (of twelve) to recovery.2. 5 hp is ridicules, 3 hp is way more than adequate. (I have a 5hp!)3. My PM jointer does look nice next to the TS. Perhaps I should accessorize with a planer?:-)John
What size jointer is it?
Are you satisfied?
6" jointer model 54A Taiwan made. I upgraded the cutterhead to a Byrd "Shelix" head. Very satisfied, but I should of gotten an 8". Did you check out that PM66 for sale in GA? That looks like a great deal if you are close by.John
yup, sure did check it out...and it does sound like a deal.
only problem is im in new york (upstate)
Will this planer make me look fat?
Mr T
I can't afford to be affordable anymore
Ummmmmmmm............YES! Yes it will! I can't beleive you even picked that out and are asking me! Don't you have a mirror! What did you do before we were married?! I am SO embarrassed for you!.............................................Thanks, Mr. T, I've always wanted to say that!:-)John
I just got mine up and running again. Finished the subpanel wiring and wired up the saw. Now I need to tune the table to the blade and build the outfeed table. You should build your own outfeed table. Make it REALLY big and part of it can be used as an assembly table. Mine is an island in the middle of the shop. Having a big assembly table is essential to me. I'm so tired of jugling things on small surfaces. Woodworking projects take up alot of room. I raised up the height of the saw a little bit. I prefer my working surfaces to be higher. All the benches in the shop are going to be the same height in case I have to share them some time.
As you can see in the pics it is an older # 65 saw with some character. It has fresh bearings and fresh belts in it. Tune it up and it's ready to go! Now where did I put my glasses?
Edited 1/30/2005 12:38 am ET by david
david,
I've just acquired a very used PM 66, Serial # 266144.
It's missing the motor cover and front door, but I want to rebuild it.
It is painted green with a white stripe. The nameplate shows Powermatic-Houdaille.
Because it seems as if you have gone through a similar rebuild, could you give me any hints on finding a copy of the instruction manual, schematics, etc.
Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Thanks.
CSmith
If anyone is looking to move up to a bigger saw, here is a modle 72 that showed up yesturday. I have one like this, and I love it. I traded a uni-saw for mine also.
http://www.woodweb.com/exchanges/machinery/posts/403120.html
I'm not sure what you want. I don't have any of the schemantics/manuals etc.
One thing I had trouble with was the arbor shaft. Someone had spun blades on it to the point it was really worn down. You might want to check that first. If you have a high quality blade see if it fits on the shaft snugly. That way when you take off a blade and put one back on it is registered center on the shaft.
From what I have gathered, the whole mechanism is built so the weight of the motor takes up any slack in it. So lube up the mechanism, take the slack out of the tilt and height mechanism the best you can, I'd put fresh bearings on the arbor shaft, and install fresh belts.
Make sure you table is flat. I used a few blocks with a straight edge to see where the low spots are. Usually there is a huge low spot in the middle of the table where most of the work is done. I used a belt sander and a magic marker to get it pretty close. I've heard of going to a shop to flatten them , but it will cost a bit unless you know someone.
There is probably is a book on the subject. I don't know where though. Keep the questions coming. Maybe i can help you out. I like old saws. They work fine. They just need to be reserected from all the abuse they have recieved over the years.
It's missing the motor cover and front door,,,
I would use some old Oak you have around and Inlay the doors with a dimanond pattern around the edges.. In the center.. A KEEP OUT inlay...
Check out message 21518.1 the poster has a link for a used PM 66.
I have had my 5hp 66 for about three years and to tell you the truth its about the only tool in my shop that I never think of replacing. I always seem to be loking at different planers or band saws, and even a larger wide belt sander but the 66 is a permanent fixture in the shop.
This forum post is now archived. Commenting has been disabled