I’d like to learn how to make dovetails, but there seems to be dozens of ways to go about it. Each method requires an investment in tools, which I’m willing (even eager) to make. Looked at router bits, but they come in many sizes and angles–which one is “all-purpose”?
Or should I start with hand-sawn dovetails? What kind of saw: a Japanese saw or a coping saw? What type and thickness of wood?
Janet
Replies
Jyang949,
Get yourself a copy of Ian Kirby's book The Complete Dovetail...maybe at your library. It's more than just a 'how to' its approach and philosophy are inspirational and you'll develope skills that are applicable to many situations for a life time of joy.
Edited 1/4/2006 4:22 pm ET by BG
There are a lot of ways to make dovetails and ultimately, it's up to you to decide on what looks best. They don't need to be evenly spaced or in a regular pattern, but they do need to look tight. Symmetry does please the eye in a lot of cases, though. There isn't just one "right" or "best" router bit for these. If you like to make noise, use a router. If you like it quiet, you'll be using hand tools. The style you choose will determine how you'll be cutting them.
Taunton has a couple of books dealing only with joinery and they show some good examples. I haven't read the Ian Kirby book yet, but I'm sure it has a lot of good info, too. If you want to watch a very simple method, go to the Lie-Nielsen booth at the Wood Working Show when it's near you. He uses a marking gauge, bevel, small square, smoothing plane, dovetail saw, marking knife, chisel and a fretsaw. He makes it look too easy, but he also lets people use the tools and try it for themselves. Handwork is mostly muscle memory- it takes practice but that pays off in big ways (It's kind of a "Once you learn to fall off of a bike, you never forget" thing). If you look around and find a good used handplane, you can buy all of the tools I mentioned before for around $100.
The type of wood is, again, up to you. Extremely hard woods may make you lose interest pretty quickly and it does take practice, so if you cut the ends of a couple of boards off, make a bunch of pins and tails, check their fit, cut the ends off and start again. Once you get to the point of being fairly proficient, make something that uses them. Remember, small gaps on the sides can be filled in so they're almost invisible, so don't get too discouraged. Just make the ends cleanly without gaps.
If you start on pine, cedar, redwood or spruce, you'll be able to start making useful things pretty soon. Then start practicing on softer hardwoods like soft maple and poplar. The main thing is learning to cut to a line and doing it evenly through the board. Dovetails can be cut in just about any thickness of wood and your eye will tell you what is needed. I would recommend practicing on several thicknesses to get the experience. A lot of drawer sides are 1/2" and the fronts tend to be thicker.
I made my first dovetails with a cheap Stanley dovetail saw, one 1/4" chisel, sliding T bevel, and an old marking gauge, probably $30 worth of tools. I worked with birch at first, because it was what I had on hand, but I wanted to work with a hardwood, to get an idea of how tight I could cut the joint without splitting, as it was driven together ( soft woods compress, which is great but gives a somewhat distorted view what tolerance to work to). For all the hype about dovetails, all it amounts to is sawing and chiseling to a line.
Rob Millard
<< smacking forehead with palm >> BOOKS! Why didn't I think of that?Our library doesn't have Ian Kirby's book, but I'm sure it's available through InterLibrary Loan.Thanks for all the suggestions. As much as I like my router, I am going to try making them by hand first.When you handsaw a slanting cut, should you tilt the wood so the saw can be used at its normal angle?Janet
At what angle?I would think ANY way you can cut a straight line is OK!
If you do them better with the blade vertical, that's fine. It's the result that matters. As I and others have said, the key is learning to cut and chisel to the line. That's really it, in a nutshell. Make the line as thin and accurate as possible. If the marks you cut in the wood are hard to see in normal light, rub your fingers over them. Any dirt on your hands will make the line more visible. A marking knife works a lot better than a pen or pencil. If you don't have a 'marking knife', you can use a razor knife.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
When you handsaw a slanting cut, should you tilt the wood so the saw can be used at its normal angle?
It would be pretty tedious to get that board reclamped exactly right. I think you'll be better off just learning to di it with the board vertical.
It helped me learn the angle, to cut a guide block from some scrap wood, against which I could set thesaw to compel the correct angle. Once I learned it with the guide in place, it got much easier to free-hand it at the angle with only the scribed guide line as help.My goal is for my work to outlast me. Expect my joinery to get simpler as time goes by.
On the other hand you don't need to get it prefectly straight<just straighter. If you do want to tilt the board to make the cut Verticle just stand a Speed or Try Sq up while adjusting the board.
I'd recommend trying to make them by hand in poplar. If you have access to FWW articles, there are several by Frank Klause through the years that are a good starting point. He has a video out now too, I haven't seen it, but people who have give it a good review. Mr. Klause's approach is no-nonsense and I think people stress way too much about hand cutting dovetails, it's not that hard. Like anything else, it takes practice.
I'd start with a $20.00 Pax Gent's style dovetail saw, a cheap marking gauge and a 1/2-inch chisel and a mallet. You'll need a bench or a sturdy table or something that'll take some pounding. Then make a couple dozen trial joints and see how it goes.
Of course there are people who will advise you that you need a $150.00 LN or Adria saw and a $2000 6-inch thick European bench made of beech, a set of LN chisels or antique Stanleys and be sure to face your bench to the West!
Then there's the camp that insists you need a Japanese Dozuki saw for @50 or $1000.00 and a long beam bench on trestles or right on the floor and a set of Japanese chisels made of 150 year old ships anchors by a fifth-generation Master Blacksmith who is now 80 years old and isn't feeling particularly well these days. Oh, and face your bench to the East now.
Or you can get a $400.00 jig, a $300.00 router and $100.00 worth of bits and some hearing protection and some eye protection, and a dust collector and a life insurance policy.
There's a lot of hocus-pokus surrounding a simple joint that can be cut with simple tools. Practice makes perfect. The more you make the better they get. Then you can upgrade the tools as you see fit.
David C.
I have a Frank Klause dovetailing video from at least 10 years ago. Very helpful to actually watch him do it. In the video he really stresses the advantages of doing it all with hand tools.Allen
I recently saw the Klaus video for the first time. Actually it was the first time I'd seen anyone on video or in person cut dovetails, aside from myself. He is impressive to watch, I've never gotten that practiced. A particular thing he does struck me. When he lays out the tails from the pins, he uses an ordinary lead pencil, not a marking knife. In fact, his pencil didn't seem to be all that sharp either. Now this practice goes against everything that I've ever read on the subject. A marking knife to do the layout is the norm, by far. So in trying to analyze Klaus's method, I'm concluding that he simply cuts away everthing that is to the side of the big black mark. Sounds easy, but we all know it isn't. He is very well practiced so his method works, but is this a good method for beginners? I don't have any real point that I'm trying to make. But I wonder what others think about this?
I did it the same way when I started cutting dovetails, if you saw to just barely remove the pencil line you are where you need to be.
I'm going to guess that after the thousands of dovetails that Mr. Klausz must've cut by now, he's adept at knowing exactly where to start the cut in relation to his pencil line.
I think that any specific technique that is practiced often enough will yield good results.
David C
Sapwood,
I agree with Dcarr, it really doesn't matter if you use a pencil or marking knife for dovetails as long as you know where to cut on those marks. However, I carry my knife lines across the end grain and it seems to provide a nice little grove for accepting the dovetail saw to start cutting...and I know mark is 90 degrees to the face side...may be just in my head but it seems to help
I was once told that at a workshop Mr. Klaus cut and chopped one side of a drawer joint (pins or tails) and started that piece around the room without transferring any marks to the 2nd. When the 2nd piece was done (tails or pins) started that around the room from the other side. Of course, when the two pieces met they fit together perfectly.Urban myth? Bald faced lie? True story? I love his videos and always pick up some tips, so I don't really care.
I got caught up in Klausz's video "do it fast approach." Only when I slowed down, did I improve. He wrote a recent article in Popular Woodworking that compared it with learning to write. Saw a row of vertical lines and concentrate on getting them straight and square. That makes much more sense to me.
when sawing, whether it is a dovetail or anything else, don't forget to position your feet correctly so that the saw motion is a natural forward and back in a straight line and not an arc.
A few suggestions.
1. Get a good saw. It doesn't have to cost a mint, but if you want to spend less than ~$100, buy a Japanese rip saw dozuki (~$50). Western saws with properly sharpened and set teeth are more expensive. You can cut very well with a dozuki, if it is a rip set, your cut will be easier (BTW I have, and have used both Western and dozuki saws). The most critical parts of this joint are sawng to the line and transfering the layout from the first board to its mating piece.
2. Get a decent chisel(s). Any good one will do.
3. A marking knife is inexpensive, and useful here. Decent layout tools will avoid frustration, they don't cost much.
4. Make sure that your boards are properly milled before starting.
5. Practice cutting to the line on some scrap before cutting your DTs- just mark out a series of diagonal lines on the end of a board (say every 1/2") and cut one after another until you feel comfortable.
6. Lay out your DTs- pins or tails first is a matter of endless debate- try it both ways and use the one you feel most comfortable with.
7. Label the inside and outside of each board (tails and pins). Remember, you will only see the DT on the outside of the board, not on the inside. When cutting/chiseling, that's the place to look.
8. Mark the waste (e.g. the portion bewteen the tails) and fill it in with a carpenter's pencil. This avoids a simple mistake and also tells you that when you see carbon, you are still on the waste side of the line.
9. Cut to the line. You can use a chisel to create a kerf starting position just on the waste side of your layout line.
10. Chisel out the waste. For the final paring strokes, use a chisel that is freshly sharpened and wider than the thickness of thre board. Make long, even passes with the chisel held perpendicular to the face of the board (a small try square can help). I think a coping saw is more troble then its worth so I just use a chisel. As you approach your lower layout line, make an indentation just next to the line (on the waste side) by hand (no mallet) with the chisel held perpendicular to the face. As you pare near this line stay just a bit to the waste side and slightly undermine your cut. When finished you can cut to the line (a little like cutting a hinge mortise in a thin door).
11. Mark the opposite board using a knife. Fill in the marks with a mechanical pencil and a 0.3 mm lead. This will make the line easy to see when cutting, if you split this line, you will be within 1/128" of where you want to be. Color in the waste.
12. Chisel out the waste.
13. Fit the joint. If it is tight don't force it. Mark the inside of the tails with a soft pencil, refit. The areas that are tight will abrade off the graphite, pare them down. Be careful not to shave off beyond your layout lines. Try to fit by paring the second board (e.g. if you did the tails first, pare the pins). Err on the side of removing waste from the inside (invisible side) of the board.
14. Practice, practice, practice...
Glaucon
If you don't think too good, then don't think too much...
A coping saw would definitely be a waste of time but you can get blades for a fret saw that are the same size or slightly smaller than the kerf of whatever saw is being used. Just slide it in and cut across the bottom of the line so the waste can be chiseled out. This way keeps the wedge from jamming into the pins if they're narrow. I wonder if the ancient Egyptians had this many ways of cutting dovetails. I can see someone toiling away on a really hot day and somebody comes up to watch, then asks, "why are you doing it that way?".
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
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