Hi everyone,
I’m new here but not new to tinkering with stuff to get it to where I need it be. I am not a woodworker nor a cabinet maker however, I am in a discussion with a designer about modifying a pre-made, unassembled cabinet that I’m thinking of ordering. Of course manufacturers have specs they have to follow and no one is going to recommend a modification because it will void any warranty. I am ordering a simple dual oven cabinet with a single drawer on the bottom. Material is laminated MDF board. The cabinet’s opening for the dual oven I want to place in it is fine width and depth wise but is way too high. The height of the opening is 53 1/4″ but the dual oven (they are attached as one unit) is just 43 1/4″ high. My thinking is to cut each of the 3 sidewalls down 9 3/4″ and attach the top to the newly shortened walls. You’d think I was skinning a cat alive. Oh no, you can’t do that. Of course I can do that. I take each wall of the cabinet and cut it down by 9 3/4″ (not the bottom where the drawer will go), then take the top of the cabinet and attach it to the newly shortend side walls. They are likely being resistant because of hardware that is used to attach the top to the walls of the cabinet. Maybe they’ve predrilled for a fastener and my cutting each wall down will remove the predrilled fastener holes? Can anyone else think of why they’d be having a hissy fit? On another note, let’s say they have fitted a fastening system, couldn’t I just screw that cabinet top into the three walls? Another wall cabinet will go over top of the oven cabinet and a filler panel will hide all seams. Even my other half is giving me grief about what I’d like to do. Bottom line, I need the double ovens to be placed lowest to the floor. A single drawer cabinet at 11.5″ plus 4.5″ for the toe kick will guarantee that I won’t burn the undersides of my arms when I reach into the upper oven. Anyway, no more ganging up on me – your input is much appreciated along with any rationale I’ve not thought of if you think my idea is a bad one. Back to tinkering on something else while I hear back from the experts here. Thank You!
Replies
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Since you are neither a woodworker nor a cabinet maker, I would scrap this endeavor and search for one that can easily source and cut laminated MDF to your custom specs. Find someone who says Yes, I can do that instead of No, I can’t do that.
Elmaduro, I mispoke. Sorry. I would not be doing the cutting - my contractor would be doing it and he is familar with cabinetry and has worked with all sorts modifying as needed. I just don't think that for someone who is experienced with cutting MDF, plywood etc., that my idea would be an issue though again the manufacturer is still being resistant to a fault in telling my designer. That's all.
This is not a difficult job, and yes, it can be done. I have made several similar adjustments, however, there are some issues.
It is not always easy to cut laminate without marring. Given your level of experience, you will probably need to accept some chipping.
There is also a degree of precision needed in measurements. You need to be within 1mm or so for the cabinet to work - far from fine tolerance, but more than that will show badly. I find that measurements +/- 0.5mm (about 1/64") are close enough and +/- 0.25mm are effectively perfect.
That having been said, you could have several practices as you have a lot of material to remove.
If I were doing this with a basic setup, I would use a saw of some kind, preferably a circ saw with an edge guide to get down to within 3mm (1/8" or so) of the final line. I would then use a router with a spiral downcut bit (from the outside) or compression bit (ideally) and a guide to complete the cut perfectly.
You may also need to drill for fixings and rout a rabbet or dado for the back.
The easiest way to do this is to get the unit and look at the assembly diagram, which will usually show you how things can go together.
If you don't have (and don't want) a router and circular saw then most kitchen fitters will do this work for you at way lower cost than buying the tool.
If you have a table saw (and even better, one with a scoring blade), this is a relatively trivial job and takes about an hour, including thinking time, setup, cutting, assembly and cleanup. Allow half a day with the simpler gear, take it slow, measure twice and cut once, and the chances of a major screw-up are small. Rush it and you are doomed.
Thank you for your response. I apologize for not mentioning that an experienced contractor would be doing this work. I think I was frustrated with the designer's insistance that I choose another cabinet and remove a drawer etc. but then it raises the oven higher by 4.5 inches and the skin covering my triceps were not in agreement! Thanks again. I figured this could be done.
This may not be as simple as you think, this from a 30+ year kitchen remodeler. You don't mention who is doing the work. If you are intending to do it yourself you will need some specialized tools, cutting laminated MDF without chipping the laminate can be tricky, plus all cuts will need to be perfectly square and the sides will need to be exactly the same length, close is not good enough in this situation. You mention hiding seams with a "filler panel" in kitchen remodeling filler panels don't hide seams they fill gaps between cabinets and walls or occasionally other cabinets. Maybe you mean a skin which could hide a seam on the side of the cabinet, but won't work on the front. The other element which may cause you a problem is causing a misalignment with the doors of adjacent cabinets creating a potentially unattractive aesthetic. Wall cabinets usually are made in 3" height increments, but 24" deep wall cabinets like you need to match the oven cabinet could be even more limited in sizes. Reducing the height by 9¾" would seem to leave you with an odd size. One last thing, if you do do this, is to make sure whatever mounting supports the manufacturer uses are put in the proper place, these are the supports where you attach the cabinets to the walls you cannot just screw cabinets to the wall though a thin press board back.
In summary I don't know enough about the your skill level or avaliable tools to say if you can do this or not, but I think you may be over simplifying the process. If you have partner who is expecting a beautiful new kitchen and you don't pull it off you could find yourself on the couch for a long time.
PS. That cabinet you picture does not appear to be intended for an all-in-one double oven unit, rather it is made for 2 separate ovens are you sure there isn't another style of cabinet that would work better? I don't deal with RTA cabinets, but manufacturers usually have 4-6 oven cabinet configurations to accommodate different appliances.
Cutting the sides will end up looking like crap unless you can cover them or they’re hidden by walls. Plus, you need a way to rejoin them such as biscuits, dominoes, dowels - all of which are beyond your capability.
What might work is to cut the dividers loose and relocate them within the box. All the work is inside the cabinet, and cleats can be used to reattach the dividers. But you will still have an issue what to do with newly created space above the ovens.
Listen to esch^^
I’m having trouble understanding why you can’t find a unit to fit the appliance. Maybe you need to try another manufacturer.
Or look for a different oven. Anything is better than tearing a cabinet apart.
I appreciate all of the comments and perspectives. My question in light of this situation is, if I was going to ask a contractor to make modifications to the cabinet (and both sides will be behind walls), would you choose to modify the dual oven cabinet or the single oven cabinet as depicted in this picture? I have no idea which would be less problematic. A contractor would assemble the cabinet and make the modifications. He is very experienced with cabinety and has built them from scratch (or at least his crew has).
What's frustrating is I know what I need and I cannot have a cabinet maker make just one cabinet. My other half is the chef and she wants a particular oven. I am the house remodeler, boat and RV maintenance specialist - she does everything else. If I asked you to make modifications to a pre-made cabinet, which do you think would be easier to modify - the dual oven where you would expertly cut down the walls to size and reattach the top, or the single oven where she could possibly burn her arms. Height matters to her.
Tinkering2
From the limited information I have about theses cabinets, from the construction and odd dimensions I suspect they are imported. I confess to having a strong distain for RTA cabinets, but I will try to help if I can.
The way to go is definitely to use the single oven box (your second pic). Since they are RTA I don't know why anything needs to be cut off, your contractor will simply need to alter the assembly. American pre-built cabinets always have a range within which the cabinet can be trimmed to fit appliances. This often involves eliminating drawers and cutting rails and occasionally adding fillers, no different than what you need to do here. I am confused by your labeling and dimensions as well as the construction of the cabinet. Since you are using Imperial inches I am assuming you are in the USA or at least NA. In the US oven units generally are designed to overlap the face frames common on our cabinet construction allowing for a certain amount of inprecision in the opening cutout. I notice that your cabinets have no vertical member, or stile in the oven location so I assume that you are trying to recess the oven into the face of the cabinet a much trickier installation. Have you verified your oven will fit the width with the proper side clearance required by the oven manufacturer? Many ovens require clearance between the cabinet sides, which is why 30" ovens get installed in 33" wide cabinets.
Another potential sticking point is the vertical grain pattern and whether or not the manufacturer offers filler strips with the grain oriented in the proper direction. You may be able to use the drawer face of the discarded drawer if it is Removable.
I have to ask why you haven't consulted with your contractor regarding these modifications given that he ultimately has to make it work?
You've raised some very good points. I am going to have to rethink this thing. Clearance of the oven - of course. I will have to check this out with the manufacturer. See? That's why forums can be so helpful even if you are not an expert. Thanks for that important detail.
Appliance installation and data sheets are often available online from many retailers or the appliance manufacturer so it shouldn't be hard to find that information.
I just think that the dual oven cabinet would be easier and more straightforward for the contractor to modify. So if you were the contractor which would you prefer to modify - the dual oven cabinet or the single oven cabinet. I don't have a choice and believe it or not, my husband is the one who would really appreciate the very specific oven to go into this space and I want to get it for him. He's a chef. As for me? I am the boat, RV, home remodeling maven. I am not a cook though I do it very well. I'd rather be outside then stuck in a kitchen or grocery store which my husband enjoys. Who says one has to be assigned to one kind of role in any relationship? So this cabinet is going to be modified come hell or highwater. Which would you choose to modify and other than cutting the boards with a precision saw to minimize damage to the exterior and interior laminate, what hardware would you use to attach the top to the shortened walls to assure stability so I can have the contractor place a cabinet above this one? Will he have to redrill dowel holes if we end up cutting them off. Can he screw the top into the side walls which will be done just one time? Glue and screw? That's what I need to know so I can tell him what I want him to do without sounding like an unreasonable customer. I need to know what to say to him. Thanks again.
Are these painted cabinets? If so, you can match paint & pretty much do whatever you want, up to making a custom cabinet from scratch. Its really not that hard. With your contractor's experience, I think its worth asking him.
The process would be figure out how high you want the oven & design a cabinet around that.
If I lived anywhere nearby, any I could build it for you!
You and I both know you want (have) to do what makes her happy :-D
{edit} you could totally eliminate the drawers if not needed, which makes it even easier.
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