Replies

1. 
   Andy_Charron | Feb 13, 2001 07:31pm | #1

   *
   An alternative to prefinishing the plywood yourself would be to buy prefinished plywood. It costs more, but it is cheaper than finishing the plywood yourself. Plus, the finish is, for the most part, as good if not better than what you can do yourself. Several of the larger kitchen cabinet manufacturers that I deal with use prefinished plywood for all their boxes. Most of them dado the boxes and then use a few screws to help hold them together. The face frames are assembled and prefinished before being attached to the box.

1. 
   tomc5 | Feb 15, 2001 06:58pm | #2

   *Thanks for the suggestion Andy, I have looked for prefinished sheets all over my neighborhood and not available. I am not afraid to spray the sheets myself - it is the concept of prespraying and then cutting/dadoing/assembling that I am cautious about. In the shops that you said that you deal with, what kind of clearcoat are they using ( I have a feeling it is more than simple lacquer)? and how many precoats? do they apply a final coat after final assembly? Are you the same Andy Charron of "Spray Finishing" fame. This is a great book and was my only source of good info on spraying when I first got started. It helped me overcome a lot of fears and misconceptions I had. Thanks for you help,Tom C

1. 
   Andy_Charron | Feb 16, 2001 03:05pm | #3

   *Yes, "Spray Finishing" is mine. I'm glad you found it helpful. As for finding the prefinished sheets, you will probably need to go to a larger plywood distributor. The local lumber yards usually don't carry this type of thing, but I could be wrong. Most of the shops I deal with use a precat lacquer for their finish and the ones that prefinish the cabinets and face frames don't put on a final coat after assembly. That would defeat the purpose of prefinishing everything. (They may have to do occasional touch-up work, but they don't as a rule apply any more finish once the parts are assembled.)

1. 
   tomc5 | Feb 16, 2001 07:13pm | #4

   *Andy-The HVLP conversion gun I am using is a Taiwan can type import. So far I am glad I did not pay more than I did (~$60.00) for a name brand as this gun is working just fine for my present needs. However I am wondering if I can improve speed or quality with a bigger nozzle? The gun came equipped with a .032" nozzle and no optional nozzles are available from my place of purchase (Harbor Freight). I have only been spraying thinned lacquers and don't anticipate spraying anything else with this gun except the precat and occasionlly latex paint for cabinets and furniture. My .032 nozzle is a bit smaller than the general purpose size nozzle you suggest in your book and you also advise to try different combinations, but I don't have this option without buying a whole new gun. So my question for you is - what would a bigger nozzle do for me? Will it allow me to spray unthinned and thicker coatings and therefore fewer total coating? Will I give up any control with a bigger nozzle?All advice is welcome here, thanks in advance.

1. 
   Andy_Charron | Feb 19, 2001 03:45pm | #5

   *The first thing I would say is that if your present fluid tip/needle combination is working OK for you, don't mess with it. There would be two reasons for using a tip with a larger diameter opening. First would be if you are not getting enough material out of the gun. If you are having a problem with dry spray, or if you have to move the gun painfully slow to get a wet coat, then you probably need a bigger tip. The other reason to use a larger tip would be if you want to speed up production. As common sense would tell, a larger tip would mean more material coming out of the gun, which in turn means you can move the gun faster over the workpiece. However, switching to a larger tip can cause a host of problems that need to be addressed. In general terms, more material coming out of the gun means you need greater PSI at the tip to properly atomize the greater flow of material. If you don't, or can't, adjust the air, you may end up with a mottled texture to the finish, or even worse, orange peel. Also, more material coming out of the gun increases the opportunity for drips, runs and sags on vertical surfaces. Also, if you don't adjust the speed of application to accomodate the increased flow of material, you may end up with coats that are too heavy (especially on horizontal surfaces.) Although is may sound attractive to spray a couple of thick coats instead of several thin coats, this has the potential to cause more problems than it solves. Anyway, to answer your question more directly, yes, a larger fluid tip will allow you to apply material thicker and faster, but, as you point out, you may lose some control over the thickness of the coating. Also, you may not have to thin the material as much, or maybe not at all, assuming you can get the proper atomization air at the tip. However, you ultimately must ask yourself whether you really need the extra speed offered by a larger tip. For traditional nitro lacquer, the tip you are using sounds about right. If you are going to spray latex paint you may need a larger tip. Same goes for water-based lacquer.

2. 
   Rick_Malmstrom | Feb 21, 2001 08:17pm | #6

   *Andy/Tom I,I am about to start to make my own kitchen cabinets (due to the gap between budget and desires). I plan to use tips that Bill Cozier wrote about in a past issue of FIB. My question for you two is what should I use to finish them.They will be built out of birch plywood carcasses and maple face frame and doors. We want them painted white. I am at a loss for what material(latex or oil) and application(HELP or Brush!?!) to use. My goal is something that will last and be double by a semiskilled person (me!)Any advice is greatly appreciated, Rick

3. 
   Rick_Malmstrom | Feb 21, 2001 08:20pm | #7

   *Andy/Tom C,I am about to start to make my own kitchen cabinets (due to the gap between budget and desires). I plan to use tips that Bill Crozier wrote about in a past issue of FHB My question for you two is what should I use to finish them.They will be built out of birch plywood carcasses and maple face frame and doors. We want them painted white. I am at a loss for what material(latex or oil) and application(HVLP or Brush!?!) to use. My goal is something that will last and be doable by a semi-skilled person (me!)Any advice is greatly appreciated, Rick

4. 
   tomc5 | Feb 22, 2001 07:47pm | #8

   *Rick-I hate to see good wood painted white. If you insist on painting, use a good sealer and any quality latex. In this case go to a "real" paint store (not Home Depot)and get their compatible products. Wet sand feather-lightly in between coats. Unless you are already well practiced in spraying, don't start with your new kitchen cabinets. Read Andy's book, practice on scrap wood and cardboard boxes and then spray your cabinets. Also if you insist on painting, and these are your first cabinets I'd suggest you use poplar or pine for your face frames and doors instead of maple. Even MDF might be good to consider.If after all this persuasion you still want to go with maple I'd rather see a light stain and lacquer or satin poly topcoat in the kitchen but that is a personel preference. I have not seen the Bill Crozier article you mentioned but Jeff Jewit had a nice article on finishing maple. That might be a good read for you. Good Luck.tc

5. 
   Don_Stephan | Feb 26, 2001 03:09am | #9

   *Working on an entertainment center for a customer that wanted a white finish. Posted latex vx white lacquer question on Jeff Jewitt's web site, and his answer pointed out that latex does not cure to a hard finish like oil paints do - it will always be somewhat sticky, meaning it will hold dirt and oil on hands and surfaces will tend to stick together. Oil paint or lacquer best for cabinets.

6. 
   Rick_Malmstrom | Mar 16, 2001 06:32pm | #10

   *Tom & Don,Thanks for the advice. The reason I am looking to use the maple is that it was recommended by Bill Crozier in the article I mentioned. Not for looks, but for strength(he suggested 5/4 planned down to full 1"). The white painted look is personal preference for my wife and myself, for the 1890 look we are trying to replicate.The more I read, and the more I look at my basement shop, the more I realized that in my case brushing seems to be preferable. My lack of money, skill, and facilities (spray booth) scare me. That being said, I do not think a "soft" finish like Don mentioned is good either. So I guess the bottom line is: Are there any products, water or oil based, I can use with brush application that will give me a non-chipping, fairly hard/durable/smooth finish? How about Milk Paint, I hear it bonds like crazy to bare wood.Thanks again for your help...Rick

7. 
   MikeD | Mar 21, 2001 04:12am | #11

   *Rick, If I were you I would get a good quality oil-based paint and take your time and brush the cabinets. Use a oil-based or shellac based primer so you do not raise the grain and sand between coats. the oil-based paint dries slow but hard and wet sanding does not clog the paper. I use this method alot when the customer wants something that looks like it "belongs" in their older houses, for build-ins, shelfs, mantles. etcGood Luck

8. 
   Rick_Malmstrom | Mar 22, 2001 01:44pm | #12

   *Mike,Thanks for the tip. I think this is what I will do. I'll try a sample first. How many coats do you usually use, and do you have any brand preferences?Thanks again, Rick

9. 
   Gordon_Jackson | Apr 05, 2001 04:08am | #13

   *Hi, I just painted some maple cabinets with oil paint and it was a pain. Use the lower grade maple for starters (usually called 80% because the wood has darker heart in it). If you are looking for a period style, try Old Fationed Milk Paint in whatever color you want then use a clear topcoat. it is water based so no fumes in your basement and is very durable. it also dries in 1 hour so you can do multiple coats in a day. Good luck.

10. 
    scott_murray | Apr 05, 2001 12:44pm | #14

    *Rick,While you're trying things, try this. If you are brushing, you'll find that putting a "flow" additive (I think for oil paints it may be called penetrol, for latex paints I know its called floetrol) will make for a nicer smoother finish. This stuff helps your paint flatten out, lessening the brush marks. You might want to try posting this question on the FH board and get a pro painter's point of view. Good luck.the rev