I’m new to wood working and have not yet bought a table saw. My first attempt at cutting a piece of wood on my neighbor’s cabinet saw resulted in a violent kick back. Does anyone have any tips on how to prevent this from happening again? I know that the table saw is one of the most used pieces of equipment in any wood working shop, but I get nervous just listening to a table saw start up. Does anyone have any tips for me to help me get over my fear of table saws?
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Replies
Dear Beev,
There are more talented teachers on Knots than me, so I won't waste time trying explain technique. What I would STRONGLY suggest is that you take a few lessons on a Table saw use, before making another attempt at cutting. The tablesaw is almost universally considered the most dangerous tool, for good reason. If you don't get harpooned during a kickback, then it will quickly remove fingers if mistreated.
Best,
John
I would urge you to take a class. They are offered at various levels all over the country (world). I don't know your neighbor but, I would suggest that maybe over there isn't the best place to start. The tablesaw, like all woodworking machinery, can be dangerous regardless of your skill level. A well tuned machine and a patient, professional instructor will go a long way toward introducing you to proper work habits.
Best of luck to you and please BE CAREFUL.
-Paul
I echo the recommendation of taking a class- adult ed, community college- whatever is available in your area.Kickback occurs when the wood piece is passing through the saw blade. When the wood first contacts the piece, the saw is spinning downward, pushing the piece down into the table. As the wood passes through the blade, the front edge of the wood is now passing the back end of the spinning blade. This part of the blade is pushing the wood UP. If the wood catches on this part of the blade, it will grab and kick back. Therefore, anything (that is not human flesh) that keeps the wood seated down (overhead feather boards, rollers, etc) helps to prevent kickback. Wood pieces that are warped, twisted, cupped, etc. are more likely to kick back- so don't rip them on a TS. Kickback is dangerous because 1) the wood can hit you in the head, chest, wherever with considerable force and 2) if the wood moves suddenly, it can pull your hands into the blade.I was taught to keep my left hand stationary on the TS table, holding the stock against the rip fence, while pushing with my right hand. Doing this regularly means that you know where your hands should be, and where they should not be. Use a push stick when ripping narrow stock. I stand to the side so any wood that kicks back (and tends to fly straight back) will not come towards me. The saw blade should just be high enough to cut the stock, if it is too high, it can increase the risk of kickback, as well as being a danger to your hands.Lastly, always rip against a rip fence, but do not use another crosscut fence at 90 degrees to the rip fence. This is a great way to end up with kick back. Good luck.Glaucon
If you don't think too good, then don't think too much...
Glaucon,"Lastly, always rip against a rip fence, but do not use another crosscut fence at 90 degrees to the rip fence. This is a great way to end up with kick back"Are you saying not to use a crosscut sled?
<"Are you saying not to use a crosscut sled?">Yes.Glaucon
If you don't think too good, then don't think too much...
G,
Are you meaning, "Don't use a crosscut guide if the end of the workpiece is near or touching the rip fence"....?
I use a crosscut table all the time (standard on most European machines). It is very safe s long as you obey the rule above - ie don't allow the rip fence (or anything else) on the table that might cause the piece being crosscut to contact and rotate the workpiece into the (back of) the blade. I usually take the rip fence off when crosscutting.
I imagine (not having the need to use one) that an ordinary mitre fence or one of those crosscut sleds is safe, as long as is properly guided by the table insets and the workpiece stays against its fence.....?
Lataxe
L,My original statement should have said: "Don't use a rip fence and a crosscut fence together on the same cut". I should have been clearer...Glaucon
If you don't think too good, then don't think too much...
A rip fence can be used as a "material stop" when using a crosscut sliding table or crosscut fence. The rip fence, however, must be set so that it does not extend beyond the front teeth of the blade (that is adjusted to be a "short fence") so that the wood is not in contact with the stop when it enters the blade. Most rip fences sold for the North American market cannot be so adjusted but an extension block can be mounted to them to accomplish the same stop function. Most fences on European saws slide to and from the operator and can be adjusted as part of their normal function. The stop function should NEVER be used if the rip fence or its extension block extends beyond the blade as this is almost an absolute formula for kickback. Rich
Rich,I understand your point- and I too have for example, cut tenons using a dado stack, a sacrificial rip fence and a crosscut sled.Remember, however, the original poster stated that he had little experience in WWing, and had a kickback experience earlier that day. My reply was intended to be a guide to someone who had not used a TS much, was unsure of the safety rules and was asking for some guidance about avoiding kickback. I purposely left off the exceptions, a newbie should stick to the fundamentals. Once comfortable and safety trained, an experienced teacher could instruct him on these.GlauconIf you don't think too good, then don't think too much...
Edited 12/18/2006 10:32 am ET by Glaucon
Fair enough. But these threads are not only for the original poster. They tend to have many ideas, as all discussions generally do.
I was clarifying the use of the rip fence regarding the little side track we went down.
One thing, for sure - the "standard" North American rip fence should never, never be used as a "stop block." It is possible for a novice to set it up for such, never realizing the danger there.
In fact, it's possible, not intending that it be a stop block, to allow the rip fence to come close enough, to contact cross cut pieces, for a very dangerous kickback situation to develop.
I think we're basically giving the same advice.
Rich
Glaucon,I agree with Rich14, your original post about not using the rip fence with a crosscut or miter sled was very ambiguous. I thought that you would clarify it after my Q, but you did not. There are many lurkers here, newbie & beyond, that would take away the wrong information from your incomplete answer & explanation.
You are entitled to your opinion.My answer stands. In general, I would not use a crosscut sled during a ripping operation. If you are experienced and properly trained you can do so- but then you don't need advice from a forum. If you are a newbie or a lurker who has not done this before- then the place to learn how to do so safely is not in a forum, but in a class.Glaucon
If you don't think too good, then don't think too much...
As somewhat of a beginner myself I would not pretend to have all the answers but I think I have a few.
1. Get yourself a hard plastic type of face shield, the type that fits on your head like a helmet. It will do a lot to protect your face and the front part of your head. I bought a nice one for $13 at Lowes. - Put it on every time.
2. Locate the off switch and figure out how to turn the saw off quickly, practice until it becomes second nature. My new saw has a large switch I can hit with my thigh.
3. Never, I repeat never reach across the blade while it is running. Always turn off the saw before gathering the wood you have just cut. Even if your cutting the same type of simple pieces over and over.
4. The back of the saw blade is what throws the wood at you. Figure out where you need to put the pressure on the wood when you’re pushing it through the blade in order to keep it tight against the fence but away from the back of the saw blade. It all depends on whether you’re using a push stick, the size of the wood, and what type of cut your doing.
5. Develop sound habits that you follow every time. Never break the safety rules. Most accidents happen when people get too comfortable with their machines. A healthy fear is a good thing.
It happened to me!! I had a piece of walnut kick back on me about 3 months ago. I have been woodworking for about 10 years, and I wasn't using a splitter or a guard. (old school I guess.)
Well let me tell all this. Kickback from a 5HP table saw hurts like nothing you have ever felt. Yep, you guessed it, I was standing directly in front of the blade, (instead of off the the left and pushing into the fence) and it happened so FAST I still to this day don't know exactly how it happened. But the piece of walnut 1/4" x 10" x 24" shot off the blade and hit me (well, if you are standing directly in front of the blade and your table saw is flush with you crotch, you know where it hit me!)
Please....Please anyone new (or seasoned) do not run your table saw without a splitter and anti-kickback jaws. I bought a biesemeyer removable splitter that is suppose to go on a Unisaw, but it fits my Shop Fox Trunion.
Please be safe and Merry Christmas!!
Woodman, with those dimensions of your kickback piece, I would bet that you have a nice distinctive semicircular gouge on the underside of the piece.I may be wrong about my guess, but if you did in fact see this semicircular gouge, then this is why you got your kickback:With the 1/4-inch material, you had the blade set very low, right? You were probably pushing with your hand fairly close to the fence, or worse yet, with a push stick on a wide cut. The combination of these factors allowed the back end of the thin material to flex upward enough to catch one of the forward traveling teeth. Because your hand or push stick stopped the front-right side from moving, the workpiece rotated against the fence as it was pulled across, and over the sawblade. This is where the circular gouge comes from.
Rick,
I think you are exactly right. I still have the piece of walnut that kicked back at me. It is mounted on my dust collection pipe right next to my tablesaw as a reminder. I will take pictures of it tonight and post them so folks will see what it looks like. I just know it was extremely painful and something that should never happen to me again!
Jeff
People get fooled by 1/4" stuff. Think its safe cause its not real fat. Big mistake. Worst kick backs I've ever seen are on thin stock...(with the classic "half moon" pattern on the bottom of the piece)
I took a look at this and it looks interesting. I have a Delta Uni (left) and the splitter/guard that came with it is a joke and a pain to put on and off. So i have been looking for something to replace it. That being said I can not seam to find this locally to me (Metro Detroit Michigan area) so if you dont mind me asking how much was it and did you order it over the internet or locally?
Doug Meyer
Westland Mi
Doug,
I grew up in Westland (Rosslyn/Wildwood). Woodcraft in Canton should have something for you.
Doug,
I believe I bit the "woodcraft pricetag" and got it there. Trust me, this thing is well worth the money. Once you get it set up on your saw, you can go from ripping long boards to using a crosscut sled in about 7 seconds....by far the best out there. I think I paid about $150 for it. If you buy it, let me know how it works.
Jeff
Oh you guys are scaring me from using my table saw. I am pretty much self taught. Don't have access to friends in this area to get advice, and classes are out because I have lost most of my hearing and would not be able to hear a lecturer. Although I am on my third TS - a PM 66, I haven't used the TS so much. for one reason or another I have done most of my sawing on an old Craftsman RA saw. With that thing, you expect it to kickback. Though it doesn't have so much power, it still gives a good kickback and I don't plan on ever ripping with it again. What bothers me with the PM is the pawls catch on the bottom plate and in order to push the board past the pawls I have to give it a good shove or whack with a blacksmith hammer, either of which doesn't seem too safe and puts a nice nick on the workpiece. I have gotten around that by tipping the pawls up and out of the way which doesn't seem too safe either. Feather boards seem such a nuisance. How are these wheels, that I see advertised, which mount on the rip fence? I am looking for pleasant pastime in my shop - not the hospital.
Don't be scared, just be safe. Invest some money in good safety equipment. See this old post of mine:
http://forums.taunton.com/fw-knots/messages?msg=6171.1
I've now been using the Brett Guard for a good while, and must say, it's very good and makes me feel much safer. The grip tite magnetic feather boards are easy/quick to use and very effective. These things, along with splitter and well tuned fence, do a very good job of making use of the TS safer.
With your hearing loss, maybe you can get an instructional DVD or video tape and if you have access to a TV with closed captioning, you would be able to read the text. There are a lot of good books available and I'm sure your local library has some of them if you don't want to buy them.If you have to shove or whack the wood to get it through, it sounds like something is out of alignment. The lumber should never bind and if it's bowing that much when you cut it, it might be a lot safer to use that piece for another project where you could cut it shorter, keeping the bowing to a minimum. Buying a bit more lumber for a project is a whole lot better than having to suffer through a kickback or injury from coming into contact with the blade. Don't be afraid, just be careful. Never stand directly in line with the blade, (obviously) never push the lumber with your hands in line with the blade, never put your hand less than about 3" from the blade and if you're pushing the limber, make sure your hands are never moving toward the blade or cutter. Eye protection and dust collection are a must.I scribed a line in the top of my TS so I would know where the blade is, even if I can't see it (like when cutting a dado). Under powered saws are more of a problem than larger ones. Once the blade slows down, it can get ugly. Dull and dirty blades will have the same effect.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
The lumber is not the problem. The notches on the pawl catch on the end of the insert slit when the lumber tries to lift it. Looks like a manufacturing defect to me. I suppose I could grind that notch off. I would have to study to see if it would affect the effectiveness of the pawl. If I extended the slit, would it weaken the insert to an unacceptable level? Someone suggested replacing the whole safety guard so I will look into that. I have been studying shop safety some. Believe me, I have gotten some valuable tips from this forum. I probably wouldn't have known of the severity of the kickback problem if it were not for this forum.
We do have a TV and my wife watches it while I study this forum. As I mentioned, I don't watch TV because I can't hear the people talking. I am so slow at reading that when it is on closed caption, I either watch the picture or the caption, but have a hard time watching both. I like reading and don't mind buying books, but seems you miss something by not having someone behind batting you on the ear when you start to do something wrong.
Edited 3/25/2007 12:55 pm ET by tinkerer2
T,I am not familiar with your TS (?PM), but it realy sounds like the guard/inset assembly is not working properly. Either there is a design or manufacturing issue. In any event, I would strongly advise that you replace it with a new one or a third party device, preferably one that has an integral splitter. What you are having to do now is both unsafe and (should be) unnecessary.Glaucon
If you don't think too good, then don't think too much...
I am sure you are familiar with "TS ?PM" my model of table saw. More likely it is my terminology or my way of trying to present it. It is a Powermatic 66. I assume it is a manufacturing issue. I should have made a fuss when I got it some years ago. Basically, I think it is a terrific saw but I do have that problem. Some one suggested I replace it with a HTC Brett guard. I will look into that. I would hate to think that I would have to bump the work piece along each time I made a cut. I would like to have one with an easily removable splitter for making non - through cuts, if possible.
Nope- it's not you, it's me. I remember that you mentioned it was a PM (Powermatic), but I wasn't sure if it was the PM66 or some other model- and I was too lazy to scroll back through the thread...Folks like those third party splitters- but they are pricey. I think FG (oops... ForestGirl) commented about the Penn State Guard/dust collector and liked it, some months ago. That seemed a bit more bang for the buck, but I am not sure if it will solve your problem. You might ask her though..Glaucon
If you don't think too good, then don't think too much...
are you serious about not using a crosscut sled????
PTU:Resd the entire (original) post:<"Lastly, always rip against a rip fence, but do not use another crosscut fence at 90 degrees to the rip fence. This is a great way to end up with kick back"Are you saying not to use a crosscut sled?>To answer your question, do not, repeat DO NOT use a crosscut sled when ripping. For crosscutting it is appropriate, but not for ripping.Glaucon
If you don't think too good, then don't think too much...
Ya, okay. I use my sled for ripping short pieces, tenuions, and stuff that fits on it. Just feels safer.
Good info regarding kickbacks. One mistake that folks make is that they take their eyes completely off the stock running along the fence. It's easy to fix your stare on the spinning blade. I tend to scan back and forth, more instinctively at this point, and apply necessary pressure to get the stock through the blade evenly and tightly against the fence. As soon as the leading edge of the stock comes away from the fence is when you've got problems.
My only kickback in 20 years was on a Delta RT40 14" 7.5hp monster. My very first day on that beast cutting 6" plywood squares. Not a typical right side of the blade kickback it was actually the "drop" that got turned sideways on the left side after passing through the cut. It got rattled, hit the back of the spinning blade and got me at about 100 MPH and 3" away from my left one. I had a black and blue from just below my waist to just above my knee. VERY SCARY. I still get a tingle when using that saw.
Be CAREFUL out there!!!
-Paul
My Hammer sliding table saw is about ready for shipment. I can't wait to lock boards tightly on that slider, whether ripping or cross cutting, and stand off to the left side of that machine guiding the table, all my parts far, far from the action. Hit the big red off button and that bad boy is dead stopped in less than 3 seconds.
The chances of the cut off, falling away to the right of the blade, kept from the blade by a real riving knife and the crown blade guard, ever kicking back are near nil, but even if that small eventuality happens, this boy will be no-where near the line of fire.
Concerned with safety? Oh, yeah!
Ditto to what's already been said. Also, do a search with the keyword, "kickback." This is one of the most frequently-discussed topics here. There are dozens of good discussions about prevention. There are also articles in FWW devoted to this. I'll look up the most recent. Rich
Edited 12/17/2006 1:21 pm ET by Rich14
Over the years I have seen and heard a lot of information about kickbacks on the tablesaw. Some of it good, some of it not so good. This prompted me to write an article on tablesaw techniques for Today’s Woodworker Magazine (predecessor to The Woodworker’s Journal). I’ve reprinted this article on my website for others to read. Even though I haven’t touched the article in many years, it is still a popular read and currently ranks at #1 on a google search for Tablesaw Techniques, and #5 when searching for Kickback.The article describes the causes of various types of kickbacks and how to prevent them. It is a good primer for the entry level woodworker learning how to use a tablesaw.You can read this at: http://waterfront-woods.home.att.net/Articles/Tablesaw/tablesaw.htm
Thank you Rick. I appreciate your help.
Steve
Is the most common use for a tablesaw cutting up large sheets of plywood, etc? How ofter do folks use one for ripping lumber?
Morning David...
33183.27 in reply to 33183.26
Is the most common use for a tablesaw cutting up large sheets of plywood, etc? How often do folks use one for ripping lumber"?.. david
I rarely use a table saw for cutting larger sheets as I work mostly with solid wood. I cut them down when I use them with a Tru-Grip and PC circular, then take them to my TS which has a small slider for final dimensioning.
I rip on it almost exclusively with a 24 T rip blade is almost a permanent fixture and I do a ton of ripping. That's what the saw was originally designed for. Cross-cutting gets done at my shop on a SCMS with on-board extensions that can be extended to 6' on either side. I keep a 60T cross-cut on that saw.
Regards...
SARGE.. jt
Large sheets is not the what table saws were originally made to cut, which you probably know. I'm not even sure they were made for cross-cutting. IIRC, the rule of thumb is that the width of the piece between the blade and fence should be less than the length and whatever the width, it should be pushed in line with the center of the piece's width, parallel to the blade. That way, the piece won't try to rotate into the blade, causing a major kickback.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
Morning highfish...
And I agree that by moving the end of that sheet off-center on a fence is asking for it to go south. That's why I cut them down with a Tru-grip and circular before going to the saw. My saws little slide will accommodate up to 13" width without the fence with a 10" blade and about 15" with a 7 1/4" installed. Anything larger gets cut with the Tru-grip and circular.
If.. if.. I were using a large amount of sheet goods (which I don't intend too), I would either attach large friction extensions on the sides, rear and front of a cabinet saw. If I used them to the point of being production (cabinet shop, etc.), I would just fork out the money (investment) and purchase a Euro slider in the price range of whatever my shop's production scale could afford.
And if I used the cabinet saw with friction tables, the fence would be equipped with a Euro type short fence as I am sold on it's benefits of not exposing the stock to the fence or blade any longer than is absolutely necessary. I have used one for around 4 years now on the advice of Sgain Dubh and wouldn't even consider using the entire long fence at this point as I see no need from my point of view.
Regards...
SARGE..jt
Does your outfeed collapse to lay flat against the back of the saw or is it always extended? I want to make an outfeed arrangement but I have to push my saw against the back wall of my garage. I'm thinking of something that hinges at the very back of the saw, lays down vertically for storage and maybe a second, shorter piece that is hinged just above the floor, with legs that hinge for storage. I have the 7' rails and extension table on my Grizzly 1023S and mobile base.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
Evening highfish...
Sorry to be so late but I work 4 days a week (Mon.-Thurs.) from 2 PM to 10:00 PM part time. Just getting around to reading your post..
The rear extension folds down. It is about 4" short or that sliding door when extended. If you notice the work-bench and assembly table in that one picture towards the back of shop, it was laid out that way with purpose. By putting a 3/4" piece of MDF on top of both, I can rip up to 16' and have on many occasions. I just lift the extension and lock it in place and then open that door behind it. Four Rigid flip top support stands (or as many as necessary) lined properly in the drive-way behind the extension coupled with that work-bench and assembly table give me 16' front and rear support.
I hinged the extensions. I used Velcro straps adhesive sprayed and tacked on to keep things together and out of the way when folded down. I had to come up with something over a cup of coffee to get the effect I wanted and the pics below will hopefully give you the big picture of how I achieved. Where there's a will.. there's a way! ha.. ha...
Regards...
SARGE..jt
I saw this outfeed table arrangement & thought that I'd post it here to see:http://woodcentral.com.ldh0138.uslec.net/shots/shot417.shtml
Forget the outfeed table. Where does one get that blade caddy on the side of the saw?
That's pretty much what I was planning, thanks for the link. I have a cab saw so I can get the hinge closer to the back, which is good because I have to put it up against the back wall in the garage.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
I like your short fence Idea. Is that an "add on" to the existing fence or is it an entirely new fence. Where could I get one to fit my PM66? I have seen boards partly ripped where the ripped ends made a short bow away from each other. That can't be safe on the table saw.
Evening tinkerer..
The partially ripped stock with either the cut portion closing or opening past the blade beyond normal (reaction being released) can pose a problem. That's why a splitter is important. I have a riving knife with Euro crown guard on my saw and IMO that's a bigger boost. The short fence releases the stock once the forward cutting teeth of the blade finish the cut. In essence, the short fence creates a "free zone" that cannot intervene to create pinch after the stock is actually cut. On a long fence that stock is still riding the fence till the saw it shut down and the blade quits spinning.
I built the Euro fence to go over the top of my long fence. The guts are MDF that has been 3 coated with poly and has phenolic attached to the outer portion. I have a T rail on top of my fence that allows me to attach the Euro with T nuts and it will slide forward and backward. The position depends on the thickness of stock as thicker stock may not allow the blade to complete a cut till say 6-7 teeth (just before mid saw blade center. A thinner piece of stock is finished sooner at about tooth 4 well forward of center. When it is finished, I kick the panic button with my knee while still maintaining a visual on the spinning blade till the blade stops rotating.
When I get an ab-normal closing from reaction as you mentioned in your post (even with a short fence) on longer stock (excess of 5'-6' feet) I hit the panic button and wait for the blade to stop spinning. Then I walk to the back of the saw and pull out a wedge from my saw apron front and wedge the split kerf to keep it open. The open "free space" on the Euro fence takes care of abnormal opening as there is no fence after the cut for it to rebound on.
You can make or improvise a "Short Fence" on any long fence from scraps. You are only limited by your imagination! :>)
Regards...
SARGE.. jt
Edited 12/21/2006 12:37 am ET by SARGEgrinder47
As promised, I took a couple photos of what kicked back on me about three months ago before I bought a biesemeyer removalble splitter. With this board only being 1/4" thick, I lowered the blade to get more teeth on it because I was cutting it to use for loose tenons. Big....Big mistake.
Well from reading this thread I am beginning to think that a splitter like the one talked about and a guard on an arm like the Penn State one would be a good idea and i know the guard/dust collector would help with the large amount of dust my WWII is kicking up on the top of the cut (for some reason) and looking at this i think it would be about $350 for both not a bad cost I guess. SO that being said for the same money is thier a better option then picking up a splitter and a gaurd on an arm?
Doug Meyer
Doug,
If you purchase the biesemeyer overarm guard, it has a anti-kickback paws on it. It also has dust collection capabilities also. In my opinion, this is about the best deal out there. Right now I believe, Amazon.com has the best deal for this guard. As for your WWII kicking saw dust up, mine does it too, it makes a real mess, that's why I am buying the biesemeyer overarm guard with dust collection on it. Hope this helps.
Jeff
There was also a thread supporting the Excalibur over on the Creek- it was highly touted.Glaucon
If you don't think too good, then don't think too much...
Excuse me for the delay, but I'm still mulling over your extensive post. Sounds like you have a safer saw setup than I do. With the short fence, I am wondering why you need to stop the saw when the reaction closes or opens. Seems as since it is past the blade and with the riving knife it wouldn't make any difference to what is still being pushed through. I can see with the long fence the danger of it either opening or closing. Have you ever heard of anyone just sawing off the end of a long fence or sawing off the outer layer?
Morning tinkerer..
The reason I stop the saw is: when I am doing really long rips (8" +) by myself, I want to take as much "chance" out of kerf closing beyond the blade pinching the blade as possible. My eyes stay focused on the blade during any cutting procedure but I give a quick glance to the stock that has already passed the blade to see how it is behaving.
If indeed it is showing abnormal reaction and closing, I will stop the saw and wait for the blade to quit spinning b-4 removing my hand hold on the stock. Then just walk to the rear of the saw and insert a wooden wedge carefully (I do not want to the stock to move from where I left it) that opens a closed kerf back up. Back to the front to continue the cut. Another quick glance every couple to feet to see if I need to repeat the procedure or the first wedge cured the potential pinch.
I would not cut the fence off. Depending on how the fence locks that might render the whole fence useless. The question would have to be answered on a case by case basis. There are Euro fences I believe that work just in that way. Slainte or some of the Euro guys might give you better data on that. If I remember correctly, I saw one in a pic of a saw Richard was using somewhere in the past , but that is just going what I think I saw?
By placement of the short fence over the existing, you maintain the integrity of the long and can pull it off to assist in wider panels if you use them..
Regards...
SARGE.. jt
I still can't see the value of stopping the saw to put the wedge in. I'm the kind of guy that can abide by the rules "cookbook faction," but prefer to know the principal of the thing. It would seem that the riving knife would hold the kerf open to protect the far side of the blade and what happened beyond that wouldn't matter. I hope I learn most of these "do nots" early so I don't have to learn by disaster.
Regarding the fence, I cringe when I think of cutting the fence shorter, or other such alterations. Someone suggested I mount the Router in the extension and I have a problem with that.
I have the accufence (Beisemeyer) which clamps from the front rail so seems it would be workable, but...... I have thought of mounting a wheel thingy and/or feather board on it but haven't seen anyone on this forum recommend it. I have also wondered why someone doesn't try using a fence on the other side of the blade with feather board/s mounted possibly both vertically and horizontally. Seems it would be so much easier to slide in place than trying to mount a feather board in the slot. Can't see that holding much anyway.
By the way, My son drove by your house this morning but forgot to wave. He is an "over the road trucker." You do live in the Atlanta area. Don't you?
Edited 12/26/2006 11:35 pm ET by tinkerer2
Edited 12/26/2006 11:36 pm ET by tinkerer2
Good morning tinkerer...
I will make an amateurish attempt to explain why I wedge the cut on longer stock as I think it can make a difference. You can and I suggest you do read the excellent article on ripping by Richard Jones (Sgain in this) just posted in this thread if you want the professional version. You will see wedging mentioned and after reading it for the umphteenth time, I remember where I got the idea to do so. The same source that I got the idea for using a short fence, crown guard, riving knife, friction supports and most other current ripping techniques I use and have used since I realized there value. And that source is none other than Richard Jones from discussions on this web-site a few years ago. To quote the words of a professional... "I think I need a drink..ha.. ha... ha..ha..ha.."
Now.. from the left of blade (lane clear) amateur eyes as he sees it after absorbing what was taught and observing how that makes sense in a live cutting scenario. Noticed I mentioned "wedging" when the stock has high reaction and Closes! I did not mention it on reaction "opening" after it had cleared the rear rising teeth (the bad boys). Opening would not require wedging as the "short fence" has done it's job and eliminated the stock making contact with the fence by creating a "free zone".
Ahhh.. but opening you do not see the theory with a riving knife or splitter keeping the cut open. Well.. in an almost prefect world of metal working that would be very sound. But the wood closing tightly can cause "pinching" on the riving knife or splitter as it is the same thickness as blade. If you stop and think, the RV-S is nothing more than an extension of the blade without teeth. The pinch on it could be relayed to an outside edge of a back tooth with the slightest off balance movement created by the operators pressure on the stock.
I do not have a helper. I often run 10'-12'-14'-16' 8/4 S1 r S2 stock through with aid of friction supports extended both in front of my saw and to the rear. When you get to that length without aid of a helper, you better create as perfect a world as can be created. I do it on a Ryobi BT3000 that has been modified with a 2 HP motor and have cut over 30,000 linear feet on it without a kick-back with a sharp 24 tooth flat grind blade. You have a 3 HP r 5 HP PM and more.. more power. With short length rips that power and the un-predictability of wood has to be respected. The longer rip you take creates more of a control issue with a single operator as long relates to a slight reduction in control with the added weight and increased leverage.
Bottom line for me as a one horse stable. I want every conceivable aid I can adapt ripping as as I understand what can go wrong and it's my fault if it does if I don't use what knowledge and experience that I have attained to insure taking as much risk out of the equation as I possibly can! And even then there are no guarantees..
Please take the time to read RJ's article and give it some careful thought. You might decide that what he says Just Makes Sense!
Regards...
SARGE.. jt
Dear Sarge,
A continued thanks for your help. I understand the principals of the riving knife and/or the splitter fairly well -- to keep the reaction piece from closing in on the blade. What I've had a hard time understanding is the usefulness of the wedge beyond the splitter. For now, I will resort to the cookbook method and just follow the directions. I also intend trying out the band saw for practise if for no other reason. I did some rips with it after I finally got it going and was very pleased. I haven't cut the lower part of the blade guard off yet as you suggested and right now the shop is crammed so full of stuff from the apartment store rooms that I can't get to the tools. You mentioned the article "Ripping by Richard Jones" I haven't yet been able to maneuver this forum. How would I access that article. I can't even find your post. I am answering this from your email notification. We also talked about your short fence. I was wondering if it was confusing to follow the scale measurement when you were using the add-on fence. I tend to take the opportunity to make any mistake there is to be made.
Good early morning tinkerer...
No... no problem with the rip scale. Any potential problem can be eliminated in one of two ways.
(1) when you create your scrape fence from scrap or whatever (I built mine from MDF coated in poly and added phenolic over the top of it) you make the face of the fence facing the blade 1" exact. So.. if your rip scale says 1".. you are actually touching the blade with the fence. If you move to 2", since you have added a 1" face you are then true 1" from fence a the face accommodates the other inch. Whatever you scale reads.. just subtract 1".
(2) Build the face any thickness you like and remove the old scale tape. Replace with another that can be had from Highland Woodworking or other sources to get a true read.
I did both the the above which is an aid in our old age as we might forget to subtract the inch. But as always.. even that should be caught and corrected if you "measure twice and cut once". As I approach 60 (59 at the moment) I'm thinking of modifying that to "measure 3 times and have someone younger cut it".. ha.. ha...
The article by Richard was re-posted by Richard in post #87 of this thread. Go back to post # 87 and find the reverence and click on it. It will open up the article that was originally printed on Woodnet.
Regards...
SARGE..jt
Hi Sarge
Keep up the good work! It's interesting that the whole issue of kickback seems to come up much more often in American fora than European ones - and when it comes up in Europe it is frequently related to the use of long through fence (or Biesmeyer type), lack of riving knife/splitter and sometimes to the absence of a run-off support - all of which you champion. As you rightly surmise the Euro short rip fence generally has a sliding fence section which can be locked in long or short positions to allow the operator to trim a narrow strip off the left hand side of a panel (as can be seen in this document on the British HSE website http://www.hse.gov.uk/PUBNS/wis16.pdf). It's only a pity the Biesmeyer didn't see fit to adopt a safer approach when they designed their original fence many years back. I also find it a great shame that SawStop, who espouse a safe woodworking policy, have seen fit to ignore what many in Europe regard as a primary safety feature. But maybe I'm just saying that because we all drive Volvos over here ;-)
Scrit
Morning Scrit...
Lovely day after cutting my short hour 5 day work week to 4 short days in an attempt to wind down toward retirement. :>)
Thanks for the kind words. Maybe not is all lost.. I do believe the result can still be achieved even by someone mechanically challenged without breaking a large sweat. By attaching a T-bolt track to the top which can be attained readily here in the states to the top of most U. S. fences I have seen, the adjusting "short fence" can be reached without sacrificing the integrity of the long.
That's exactly what I did to my "junk-saw" as shown in the pic in a post to tinkerer this thread. The "shorty" is nothing more than a 3 sided rectangular box that has 2 T bolts and nuts on top that allow it to slide in the track underneath. A turn of the top knob locks it down or allows it to be moved as required. I even made a scale on mine to show me where I want the front edge to be on pre-determined thicknesses of stock. As you know the thickner the stock, the farther forward the leading edge of the "shorty" has to be toward the highest point of the blade height. 4/4 stock will be completely cut at beyond approximately tooth 4-5 where 8/4 will not until 6-8 just short of center tooth height.
The track and improvised T-nut-bolt sliding takes only a few seconds to adjust and can be removed entirely for whatever reason as mine has become a permanent fixture.
Regards...
SARGE..jt
Edited 12/29/2006 10:14 am ET by SARGEgrinder47
Hee Hee, We Won. Perhaps you are like me and would sooner be out in the shop than watch a game. I was actually out cutting up the old deck to make firewood for the new outside wood boiler. My wife watched it though.
When I can get back in the shop, I will definitely make some changes to that saw. It worries me a little the way it is now. It would be nice if the saw had a movable steel tape that you could just set to match the fence you are using. One of those "They should make a" thing. By the way, how do I go back to post #87. I found out how to get #1 through #20. The only way I can get this thread is by going to your email as I don't see it in the forum anymore. I see where Richard Jones reposted #87 so I will just go there for the info. Thanks for all the help.
Morning Tinkerer..
To get to #87, scroll down to the bottom and click in 80-89 which isolate those post. Just scroll till you get the one you need.
They do make the self-adhesive backed tape. You can get one at Highland Woodworking http://www.highlandwoodworking.com and I think I've seen them on the Rockler site or one of those.
Congratulations on your Hokie's's win over Ga. Tech. I didn't watch as have been in the shop building for the last 4 days more or less. I did watch the tail end of the Oklahoma. - Boise St. game. Haven't seen anything as exciting as that since "The Thriller from Manila". ha.. ha...
Regards...
SARGE.. jt
Dear SARGE, How could you? West Virginia University is called the "Mountaineers," not the "Hoakies." Hoakies is reserved for some other on name University. Sound like you keep up with the sports like I do. Other, more important things vying for your time? Just wanted to thank you DanG for the instructions on how to operate this forum. I think I finally added to my abilities to get around. One thing I am still trying to figure out is how to send pictures. Someone told how to do that about a month or six weeks ago and like so many things, I lost that too.
Edited 1/2/2007 11:15 pm ET by tinkerer2
You're welcome, tinkerer. Next lesson: if you click on "Advanced Search" over at the upper left of the page and type "post pictures" in the "Find Messages" dialog box, it will bring up loads of messages on the subject, perhaps most notably Forest Girl's reply to joepez athttp://forums.taunton.com/fw-knots/messages?msg=30709.2Not sure what computer you're using, but for reducing the file size to the recommended 100KB or less, Irfanview seems to be most popular if you're using Windowshttp://www.irfanview.com/Good luck with that, too,
Dan
tinkerer, I see that Sarge has explained how you can get to post #87 when you’re in the Table Saw Kick Back thread, but I don’t think anyone has answered your question about how to get to the thread to begin with if it’s no longer on the list. So I thought I’d take a shot at it. Forest Girl usually does a fine job of explaining these things; if I mess up somewhere she’ll probably pick up on it.If I do mess up I may have to lay some of the blame on my Mac/Firefox combo, I don’t know. But while it’s not exactly the same as a PC and Explorer, I think the basic navigation should be close enough.First off, are you using the Advanced View or the Basic View? I’d recommend the Advanced View. It’s a little more complicated, but not that much. You can switch back and forth between views down at the bottom of each page of messages. If you’re using the Basic View when you log onto Knots, at the upper left you will see “Start Discussion” “Advanced Search” and “All Unread” above the list of threads. If you’ve read all the messages in a thread, it obviously won’t have any that are Unread, so it follows that that thread won’t show up in the list. Most likely that is the source of your problem. If you’re using the Advanced View when you log onto Knots, at the upper left you will see “Post New”, “Advanced Search’, and “Show discussions…” above a drop-down box with “with Unread Msgs” as a default. The default is the same as in Basic View, and will have the same effect; however the box has other choices such as, among others, “Today”, “2 Days Back,” or, “I’ve Recently Seen”. One of those may pick up the thread even if it’s not current right this minute (I haven’t figured out how far back “Recently” will take you).Since you’re looking for a thread that you’ve posted in, there’s another drop-down choice, “of High Interest”. Threads you post in become threads of high interest and get the little “thumbs up” sign, so that would be another, and likely more certain, way to find it. (If you find a thread that’s interesting but you haven’t posted in it, down at the bottom of each page you will find a “Rate my interest:” choice: “High,” “Neutral,” or “Ignore.” (I haven’t tried the "High" choice; for all I know it might get me an email notification for every new post, which is something I can do without.)It would be nice if there were some place on the site that explained just how all of this was intended to work, so we could just refer you to that. But if there is one I haven’t found it. Anyway, I hope that this will help get you overthe hump, so you can find your way around a little better. Good luck,
Dan
I think this might have one or more of the pictures you mentioned, Sarge, along with a bit of information on solid wood ripping techniques on a table saw.
I managed to studiously keep out of this thread until now, but here's my likely one and only contribution, ha, ha. Slainte.
http://www.woodcentral.com/cgi-bin/readarticle.pl?dir=powertools&file=articles_108.shtmlRichard Jones Furniture
Morning Richard...
Thanks for the assist with the pics. Now I remember where I got the idea to "wedge it". And all the sermons you have delivered in the past on ripping have not all gone on deaf ears. I usually pick up a convert here and there with word of mouth, but more have come in my shop where it it easier to relate to what is being said visually.
One here.. one there.. just grinding away the hurdles that obstruct the view.
Hope all is well in your new job.. I see articles keep popping up one here and one there. And I believe is my memory serves well that the daughter is over there. Hope all is well with that scenario also. Having a 20 year old son myself brings a few thoughts to mind. Without going into any of those thoughts, I think it could be summed up in the words of a crusty old wood-working goat I once over-heard......
"I think I need a drink... ha.. ha... ha..ha..ha.."
That about says it all I do believe........
Regards...
SARGE.. jt
Thanks for the kind words Sarge. Yes, I still write for woodworking magazines for filthy lucre. I've a couple of bits on the go now-- portfolio building and photography for the woodworker are a couple of possibilties that a magazine's asked me to tackle.
On the writing side, articles are a somewhat secondary priority at the moment. I got started on what I thought might be some articles or notes on timber technology in the autumn of 2005, and it seems to be turning into a bloody book. There's a publisher interested, but there's more to write yet.
I guess my reason for somewhat inadvertantly allowing the thing to turn into a book is that the further I got into it, the more I realised that all the text and images I was creating was all the information I wish had been available in one neat package in the early 1970's when I started in this wood-whacking game.
Hoadley's book is an excellent resource, but it's a bit of a dry old read. Where's the history of trees? Where's the discussion on regional differences in tree growth and species, and why? There's really nothing much on the historical use of trees by mankind, the fruit, the nuts, the wood, the bark, their resins, etc.. Why is their nothing on tree propagation, flowers, fertilisation, etc.? Where's the discussion of the role trees played in the political and economic cycle of of nations and empires? Whilst covering the essential nitty-gritty of trees, felling, conversion, seasoning, wood movement, etc., I'm including a great deal more on those topics I mentioned.
Anyway, here's that link again for tinkere (I think it was) to save him looking too much, ha, ha. http://www.woodcentral.com/cgi-bin/readarticle.pl?dir=powertools&file=articles_108.shtml
I was not the instigator of the article. Barb Siddiqui wrote a piece on using a short fence on her saw. I'm not sure now where she got the idea from. She knew I was keen on spreading the safe saw usage message, particularly the short fence, riving knife, crown guard arrangement for ripping solid wood. So she asked me to add my comments, which I was glad to do.
It just ought to be remembered that Barb was very much the driving force in creating the piece, not me. Slainte. Richard Jones Furniture
Morning Richard...
Interesting that you mention the article that you were working on is snow-balling into a volume instead of a short read. I have and have read Hoadley's's book several times and it's also used for reference. I quite often e-mailed Jon Arno before his passing as Jon was another great source of wood wisdom. He was quick to resond even in the physical condition that we didn't know he was in at the time.
But you are correct about the fact that the few books that are on the market don't go much beyond density.. nomenclature of species.. etc... etc.. I recently completed 4 chairs to compliment a white oak country kitchen table for the "First Lady" that is now in progress. They are made from short base beams of recovered pallets we get at part-time work from over-seas. I have been re-covering and saving them waiting for a project that would fall in the range of their length. I wasn't sure of their identity at first and had to do some extensive digging to find out that took months of searching.
Turns out they are "para-wood" (Malaysian rubber trees that are hybrid to the S. American rubber tree). I had never seen the species I thought. As it turns out I have... but under the cover of stain and finish as this species is now very common in well known American brands that have closed their facilities here in the U. S. and have it made cheaply in the Orient and Indonesia. It's very hard and relatively easy to work. After 35 years of plinking at wood, I have never built a chair, but it seemed to go off without a hitch as the wood behaved nicely for a challenged amateur chair-maker.
The tree's have about a 25-30 life span producing rubber sap and then are cut down and new seedlings are sown to replace them. Instead of the wood being rendered useless, it is used in pallets and now a stable of American made over-seas furniture instead of becoming fire-wood.
A book of the nature you stated you are doing would prove to be an interesting read IMO, as so many faucets of a finished product never surface beyond a finish itself. Maybe such a book would prompt us to slow down in our hurry up world and reflect on not only the joy of arrival but interesting details that might enhance our over-all appreciation of a long journey from start to finish.
So... bring it on mate as you've already got one copy sold... an I personally gaurantee it..
Cheers...
SARGE..jt
You must live a busy and interesting life with writing magazine articles, books, and woodworking. I bet you even have family events and responsibilities too. Anyway, I want to thank you for that reference. I could have spent the rest of my life looking for it to no avail. I printed it out and put it in my book for future reference. Thanks to the other folks too for the help.
R.J. , many thanks for the illuminating article, I am a new user of a refurbished Unisaw, Unigard and Unifence that I just mounted with a new 50" rail (read expensive). I was excited with the potential of the fence as I realized the potential over the good quality fence on my contractors saw, but your article locked it down. Many thanks. I resarched every scrap of info that Delta ever produced and there in NO info in it. What a travesty! Paddy
Chances are there was no splitter or blade guard on the tablesaw.
The splitter in itself will prevent most kickback situations.
As others have noted, pls. take a short seminar on tablesaw safety
and maybe your neighbour also..
Norman
I agree w/the Splitter.After attending furniture school in Maine I was introduced to a splitter & will never cut w/o one.I made mine for my Delta X5 from some scrap steel.It takes some time grinding,sanding,etc.toget it to fit the kerf exactly,but you only have to do it once to save your hand or that big bruise on the gut!Secondly feather board hold downs clamped to the fence&the table;push stick your piece.If you do go free hand cutting,[an important rule I learned while working w/a cabinetmaker for 2 yrs.]NEVER push or put any pressure on the waste side of the wood piece!Hope I helped.Don't be afraid.Be respectful.
Hi Beevers and welcome to 'Knots.' We hope you weren't injured, but just given a good scare. In all fairness, most kickbacks are the fault of the tablesaw operator, and the rest are the fault of an out-of-adjustment saw. Just like falling off a bike, don't let your first experience scare you away from woodworking.
You don't say where you are located. if you go to: http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/pages/fw_clubs.asp you should find a state by state listing of woodworking clubs. Start there. The clubs I know about will welcome you and help you get started SAFELY. If there are no clubs in your area, check your local school districts to see if they offer Adult-Ed. courses in woodworking.
There are many fine books on the table saw. One of them is "The Accurate Table Saw" by Ian Kirby. It's a good book with lots of hints and instructions. There are several others, but this one is in my own collection of books and I've found it very useful. If you look through this board, you will find other postings about accidents. The people who have had accidents usually post a detailed description of what they were doing (or trying to do), the type and size of the blade, etc. All this info helps us help you. We don't want you to hurt yourself while enjoying this hobby. Just for the record, after 40+ years of woodworking I've only had 3 kickbacks. Two were due to improper set-up, with no injury to me, and one was sheer stupidity on my part and resulted in a 'minor' injury and a REAL GOOD scare. As a new woodworker, we hope to see you asking more questions. It's the best way to learn.
Best wishes.... SawdustSteve
Greetings and happy holidays....
As everybody else has mentioned,
Kickback is caused by the pieces being cut getting "wedged"
between the back of the blade and the fence.
Here is some simple mechanics to keep things simple and safe.
1) Always, not sometimes,....always use the Riving knife behind
the blade.
2) Adjust the fence to be perfectly parallel to the blade PLUS
about 1/32'' offset (away from the back of the blade).
3) Use a verticaly set featherboard on the fence when possible.
4) Use a push stick and listen to the saw, it usually changes sound as the wood is getting jambed and about to kickback.
5) take a course or read lots and keep asking questions.
1 kickback is always 1 too many....
Perry
Actually, a misadjusted fence is one of the least likely causes for a kickback, unless of course the fence is grossly out of adjustment. The lateral force of a misadjusted fence against the back edge of the blade is not sufficient for the workpiece to catch on the blade unless the operator lets go of the workpiece. If this were not the case, then having the fence skewed 1/32-inch away from the blade (as is commonly recommended) would result in the same situation on the offcut side of the workpiece. For that matter, simply using a lateral feather board as many woodworkers use, would have the same results.When a kickback occurs from the workpiece binding between the blade and the fence, it is typically the result of reaction wood that warps during the cut. Depending on the severity, this can be comparable to 1/8 to 1/4 inch of fence skew.
I'm new to wood working and have not yet bought a table saw.
You don't need a tablesaw.
Try this system.
View Image
http://eurekazone.com/gallery/smart-clamping-tutorials
david
What an AWSOME sawing system. It looks alot safer than a table saw. Thanks for the information.
Steve
There is no substitute for a good table saw. Even with a circular saw guide system (Festool, EZ guide, etc.), many operations are faster and safer on a table saw.TFToolfanatic (a.k.a. The man formerly known as "Toolfreak")
You may like to use another name.
Tool-agnostic sounds in pair with your post.
david
I'd watch the name-calling if I were you! Taunton is cracking down on this.
TFToolfanatic (a.k.a. The man formerly known as "Toolfreak")
toolfreak!
Oh God! Not this again!!!!!!!!TFToolfanatic (a.k.a. The man formerly known as "Toolfreak")
TF.
Why not ?
Imagine a machinist holding a piece of metal while drilling and milling?
Pushing a piece of wood into spinning blades, knifes and router bits deserves your wish: Oh God! Not this again!!!!!!!! 60.000 times a year.
david
I may be wrong, but I don't think he was discounting your recommendation. I think he was referring to arguments in other posts about who makes the best system.
My turn :) Oh God! Not this again!!!!!!!!
Easy answer.
To stay on topic.
The best one is the system that can take the place of the dangerous tools and eliminate the dangerous kickbacks.
david
david.
Edited 12/21/2006 11:41 pm ET by davidwood
I was actually referring to the fact that I've seen way too many tablesaw threads hijacked by people from Eurekazone trying to pitch their EZ-guide system. It happens a lot on the Breaktime forum, too.
I have no problem with these systems. I just don't like seeing somebody new to woodworking being told not to buy a table saw just so the Eurekazone folks can make a sale.
Besides, there are many things you can do with the table saw that you can't do easily with a circular saw/guide (tenons, dados, box joints, mouldings, etc.).
TFToolfanatic (a.k.a. The man formerly known as "Toolfreak")
Because his question was specifically about table saws. I've seen enough "endorsements" about the EZ-guide and I'll bet others would agree with me!
TFToolfanatic (a.k.a. The man formerly known as "Toolfreak")
Tablesaw kickback solutions. 1) Take a course at a reputable woodworking school. 2)Make sure the blade on the saw is in tip-top shape; sharp and clean. 3) Always be alert when using the table saw! Focus, focus, focus, on the job at hand, being conscience of a possible kickback. "Did I say "FOCUS!" Be prepared for a kickback. " A little fear is not a bad thing, it may help you stay safe."
There are several magnetic hold down systems which work well. Check them out at woodworking shows.
I'm sure you understand the very real hazard of using power equipment. One stupid mistake can cause serious injury and even death. So when you are in the workshop be aware of the dangers. Take your time and do allow any distractions to impair your focus. Be safe and enjoy the satisfaction of woodworking, it is very rewarding .
Sorry for the font problem; my computer is having its' way this morning!
Best of luck!
Edited 12/18/2006 8:26 am ET by groucho
I double and triple what many of the posters have said. Do not go near a table saw until an experience teacher has shown you the proper safety methods. I have seen a board kick back so hard it impaled the facing wall. Once again, don't touch a saw until you know what you are doing. PMM
Thank you for your response. I have a wood working instructor lined up to teach me.
Steve
Dear Beevers:
Your welcome. We all try to help each other. When I read your post it was apparent to me that you had little if any experence with the TS. I shuddered. Woodworking is a blast but obviously not much fun if you get seriously hurt. One last little bit of advice. I work hard all day (as most of us do) (trial lawyer) and am tired at night. I will not go into my basement shop after work. Only on the weekends when I am fully awake and aware. Best luck. PMM
Pmm,
Thank you for the advice. I am a physician and am often beat when I get home. I plan on working with the table saw (when I get one) only on weekends when I am wide awake and alert. By the way, I have been trying to figure out what type of table saw I want to buy. I like the contractor type saws but have seen some saws with a "sliding table". Would the sliding table help prevent kick back? I appreciate your help.
Steve
Beevers,I am also a physician, and I feel your fatigue. If I am tired, I just avoid power tools (and chisels) altogether. If you are really beat, it will be hard to do even decent joinery with hand tools, and the sharp ones bite. I think finish planing or cabinet scraping is both therapeutic and fairly foolproof- even for me when I'm tired. I hate sanding any time.As for a saw that avoids kickback- your best bet is a bandsaw, which is surprisngly versatile. If you are not cutting a lot of sheet goods, and if you are not doing production runs of pieces (e.g. ripping many boards to the same width), then a BS is probably your best bet for safety and versatility.Glaucon
If you don't think too good, then don't think too much...
Thanks for the info. I am also lookinhg at a band saw for my shop. You know, if I keep buying more and more tools, I'm going to have to take out a second mortgage to build a bigger shop in the back yard.
Steve
Glaucon,
Your exchange with pmmatty above, reminded me of a conversation I had years ago with a neurosurgeon. His hobby was building "Kentucky" longrifles, and I asked him how he found the time to work on the guns given the work schedule that his medical practice demanded. He said that when he got home, he was exhausted. But if he made it to the basement and his workshop, after a few minutes, he felt rejuvenated, and would work at his hobby for hours. His theory was that he was using a different part of his brain, far away from the stresses that brain surgery entailed, and the change of pace, & different technology provided relaxation that was beneficial to him.
Do you not find the same to be true?
Ray
Steve:
Sliding tables may help a little but the key is proper training and use of the splitter which has been mentioned.
I am not a pro but can give you a few tips:
1. Always stand to the left of the board as it you feed it through the blade. That way if it kicks back (it will kick straight back) it misses you.
2. When pushing the board through the blade with a pushstick (I use one of the commercial handle type pushers) always keep pressure on the board until the back of the cut board clears the back of the blade. It only makes sense that if you have control of the board past the blade that it cannot catch on the blade and kick back at you.
3. Make sure the blade and fence are properly aligned. Once again, common sense and understanding what causes kickback. Imagine your blade is somehow not at 90 degrees with the fence; the back of the blade is pointed toward the fence or the fence is pointed toward the blade. The cut board is going to be squeezed between the two, and then the back of the blade will grab the board and send it straight back- bingo: kickback.
Last: choice of saws. I purchased a jet contractor TS perhaps 4 yrs ago and it has served me well but I wish I had spent more and bought an enclosed cabinet saw. You will see many as you shop. They are heavier (more stable); more powerful for tough work; and most importantly enclosed to capture the dust much more efficiently than the open back contractor saw.
If you have more questions I would be happy to help.
Patrick
Thank you PMMATTY. I appreciate your feedback on kickback. :)
Steve
Steve,I agree with Glaucon about using the bandsaw for ripping. It's one of the least appreciated tools in the shop. I have done most of my ripping for many years that way, followed by the jointer to clean up the edge. Compared to the table saw, it's a quiet, less "violent" way to cut with the grain.I have just bought a Hammer combo machine with a sliding table saw. Yes, sliding table machines have the capability of being much safer regarding the problem of kickbacks. They are generally engineered to a higher quality than the typical cabinet saw, even high-end models. And you pay for the quality. They typically have robust riving knives, a crown blade guard. But it takes the operator to use the machine in a way that takes advantage of the engineering and inherent safety. Anyone can cause a kickback on a table saw.Ripping can be done on them in the "standard" way which brings into play all the geometry which can cause a kickback. In these circumstances the riving knife and blade guard can prevent the blade from catching and throwing the wood where that would have happened in a "lesser" machine. Because the knife and blade guard can be left on the machine for almost all type of cuts, there is little incentive to remove them. The less-capable "splitters" and guards of cabinet saws often get removed because they are so cumbersome they are frustrating to use.Workers who get trained on "American style" cabinet saws are often taught (incorrectly) to use the saws with all guards removed. Workers who learn on European machines that have riving knives and crown guards are taught exactly the opposite and generally learn safer work methods. (There are also lots of machines in Europe which have poorly designed splitters and blade guards and these get removed also).Sliding table machines can be used to control the work in a way simply not possible in a standard table saw. The work can be locked securely onto the table, to the left of the blade, and the table guided by the operator who is far to the left of all the action, hands and body nowhere near the blade. The cut off piece falls away to the right of the blade, out of reach of the rising rear teeth. Straight-line ripping and repetitive parallel ripping can be done with the work locked to the table.You can get DVDs from Hammer and MiniMax which demonstrate their sliding table machines.Rich
Thanks for the info. Rich. I'll check out the DVD's.
Steve
I bought and read this book before ever using a table saw...
http://www.amazon.com/Complete-Table-Saw-Book/dp/1890621668/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_k2a_2_img/104-6025240-4342307
Great for beginners with lots of safety information.
As far as the kickback incident -- you probably didn't have the stock tight enough against the fence. Or, you fed through a twisted board. That's why, at least for a beginner, you should leave the blade guard assembly on the saw (it comes complete with a "splitter" and "anti-kickback pawls).
TF
I think one of the best books on using power tools is, Cabinetmaking and Millwork by John L. Feirer
beevers,
No doubt by this time you understand why kickback occurs. If you'd like to see the mechanics of this without experiencing injury, cut a piece of light foamboard, letting it twist away from the fence while you cut it.
It'll spin past you harmlessly or lightly bounce off you.
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