I just finished this desk and some one saw it and wants to buy it, it took aporx. 40 hrs. and $500 in materials, hand cut dovetails and and hand rubbed varish/ oil finish.
I’m thinking $2500- $2800.
Discussion Forum
Get It All!
UNLIMITED Membership is like taking a master class in woodworking for less than $10 a month.
Start Your Free TrialCategories
Discussion Forum
Digital Plans Library
Member exclusive! – Plans for everyone – from beginners to experts – right at your fingertips.
Highlights
-
Shape Your Skills
when you sign up for our emails
This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Service apply. -
Shop Talk Live Podcast -
Our favorite articles and videos -
E-Learning Courses from Fine Woodworking
-
-
Replies
You built this in just 40 hours?!?!?!
You're a far, far better man than I.....
Nice work!
Rennie
Regard it as just as desirable to build a chicken house as to build a cathedral.
Frank Lloyd Wright
$3,000+
That seems about right to me. $3,000 is reasonable for bench made furniture with figured wood. A "name" reputation would add a thousand or two.
Hi. Lovely table.
My advice would be, know your base price and aim high.
They can always negotiate you down towards your base.
If you set the price too low, it will be gone, and so will your profit.
Good Luck
Alex
40 Hours!! Are you sure about that? If you hadn't told me the time I'd have said 2500 to 3000. But if you made it that quickly you could sell it for 2000 and do well. Of course the time you put into the job (weather more or less) has little to do with the value, just your earnings.
If you built that table for yourself, and want to keep it, tell him it is not for sell but you would gladly build another one as a comissioned piece. You can charge more for a comisioned piece than a spec piece. Pluss the client gets the satisfaction of knowing that the piece was made for him/her.
Mike
Sorry I forgot to comment that your work is very nice. Great proportion and lumber choice. Did you do the design?
Mike
The problem with billing by the hour is that the better you get, the faster you get, which means the cheaper you get.
Does that make sense to you?
Not to me...
Should somebody pass their expertise on to their customers in the form of lower prices? How about rewarding yourself for your own talent, expertise and efficiency.
If I build a great project twice, I'll be damned if I'm going to price the second one less than the first. Absurd comes to mind...
Value billing, my friend, value billing.
The quickest way to go broke building fine furniture is to think like you're running a manufacturing shop floor.
You're an artist, not the VP of Manufacturing Operations at Ford Motor Company.
The problem with billing by the hour is that the better you get, the faster you get, which means the cheaper you get.
Only if you forget to give yourself a raise...
Don't know about you, but my hourly rate would change on every job.
It's just a silly exercise - a lone artist setting an hourly shop rate.
I agree with you. I was trying to be somewhat funny, but hopefully you understood my point - With each piece your knowledge, reputation, and presumably skills, increase, so you should make no apologies for maintaining or increasing your rate, piece price, or what have you. Each piece you do should be better than the last one.
Of course, I don't make a living off my woodworking, so take it for what it's worth.
It was funny and made a good point too.
Those bound and determined really could have several hourly rates and/or change them often.
If you use a shop rate - as you get better, you increase the shop rate and maybe even make more money, or not work as hard and make the same ( more tiome for fishing )1 - measure the board twice, 2 - cut it once, 3 - measure the space where it is supposed to go 4 - get a new board and go back to step 1
I agree completely. That is what I ment when I said "Of course the time you put into the job (weather more or less) has little to do with the value, just your earnings.".
I charge by what a job is worth. And to tell you the honest to God truth...... I don't know what that means. LOL.
Actually it is some perversion of pseudo math that includes............. my desired income for the length of time I expect to be on the project, minus how soon the mortgage payment is due, multiplied by the amount of skill the project requires, add to all that the fair market price of the job, then add the amount I think that the client will be willing to pay, and divide by three.
Heh heh. This is really funny to me because I really think that is how I make my bids. Can any of yall relate?
Mike
Yes, I can relate.
"value pricing" ... agree 100%.
the time + material arguement is only for knowing YOUR pain point, not the value point for the piece. The piece is worth exactly what the client is willing to pay and not $1 more OR LESS. Time+material is fine for tradesmen whose net product has value in the quality and completeness of execution. This consideration lacks the intangible value that come with luxury items. Don't undervalue this.
When negotiating, here is an axiom my corporate VP father used to tell me: In all negotiations, the first person to name a number loses. One of his business pals would always chuckle and chime in "and if you aren't embarrased by the number you settle on then you've done a poor job after that!" Crazed retired coots though they are they are dead on in this respect and I use this daily.
Oh yeah, GORGEOUS piece of work.
2500 to 3000? Seriously? As in, 75 full-time work weeks?My goal is for my work to outlast me. Expect my joinery to get simpler as time goes by.
Sorry, I meant dollars, not hours.
Mike
Hehe well that makes a LOT more sense. Sometimes I do get a little surprised at the many hours some put into certain projects. I like the observation I saw posted here recently, pointing out that pro's tend to brag about how little time they had in a quality piece, while amateurs brag about how many hours they've devoted.
Anyway, thanks for clearing that up. I hadn't come up with a good way to square that with your other posts. :)My goal is for my work to outlast me. Expect my joinery to get simpler as time goes by.
$500 material
$50/hr shop rate X 40 hrs = $2000 ( variable based on YOUR shop rate)
$2000 + $500 = $2500 MINIMUM1 - measure the board twice, 2 - cut it once, 3 - measure the space where it is supposed to go 4 - get a new board and go back to step 1
Just to add to this. This formulation, of pricing based on materials plus an hourly wage is a measure of whether or not one should make an object to sell or not, depending on the price that could be received. It is the minimum price--the reservation price if you will--not a guide for setting price. And remember the "shop rate" isn't really equivalent to a wage, its a rate that also takes into account the other costs of having a business--rent and marketing and.......as well as a return on the money invested in tools and inventory.
The more useful task, albeit more difficult, is to gauge what customers are willing to pay--regard less of the the cost. From the manufacturers point of view the price should be the highest that a sufficient number of customers are willing to pay.
And, since this a market for artisanal products, it is often the case that customers prefer to purchase at high prices--it confirms value and confirs a cachet.
I totally agree, that was why I stated that with that calculation $2,500 was a Minimum. Silly, but some people want bragging rights about their "custom made" furniture. That is one way that you develop a reputation that allows you to charge even higher prices later on.
the "shop rate" isn't really equivalent to a wage, its a rate that also takes into account the other costs of having a business--rent and marketing and.......as well as a return on the money invested in tools and inventory.
the deprciation on tools, utilities, insurance..... as well as the hourly pay you are paying yourself are all factors. For some the shop rate will be a bit lower, for some the rate will be higher. I use it as a quick thumbs rule to figure my bottom rung price that I Have to have dead drop min. From there, I will look at how the client is dressed, what they are driving, where they live, what they have to say about their profession ( if I can get any of this info ) and make judgement on what I feel they can reasonably afford. Then I add in a 10% bargining factor to come up with my initial asking price1 - measure the board twice, 2 - cut it once, 3 - measure the space where it is supposed to go 4 - get a new board and go back to step 1
If I quit woodworking and want you to build for me, I guess I'll go in jeans, in the old minivan, and bring my little girls along... maybe put 'em in dirty playclothes and skip the bath that morning.
Heh :)
Seriously your approach makes sense. Why not charge what the market will bear? If your judgement is astute, I think I'll be careful before sitting down to play poker with ya. :)My goal is for my work to outlast me. Expect my joinery to get simpler as time goes by.
Very, very, very, well said.
gizzo ,
Absolutely beautiful piece of work . Look in some high end gallery type of shops and it is common to see a price tag of $3,000 for a rocking chair or something like that , Maloof type look commands a high price .
That desk imo is much more complicated then many pieces that sell for a lot of money . It is a fine example of fine furniture and design . Don't sell yourself short .
The value is in the eye of the buyer .
You can always come down on your price , start high it's worth it .
good luck dusty
Your desk is beautiful. Now for business. In my opinion you are selling yourself short. Forget the hours you put in. The price of your product is what the market will bear. Think in terms of what the desk is worth to a potential buyer. What I would do (I am in sales and marketing and have been forever) is show the desk (don't know the galleries and so on in your area) and ASK for offers. This will tell you what is is worth to your buyer. Give it some time and then sell it to the highest bidder. Good luck. PMM
Beautiful work! If someone came along and asked for two more just like it, what price tag would you put on them? Bill
Very nice piece of work. I like your thinking on price. Depending on the demand for your work, you could possibly get more. I bet a piece like that, if made by Becksvoort, would run around $7K to $8k, but I think the demand for his work, at this point, is greater. Since I am a struggling unknown, I would price it as you did and pray it sold. It certainly is more than fair.
I really would like to see more details of the desk; dovetails etc..
Bob, Tupper Lake, NY
Edited 9/10/2006 6:28 pm ET by salamfam
Gizzo-
First and foremost beautiful work. I agree with the majority of the other posters. But I would likke to know if you counted all the hours of designing the desk, the time it took to go and get the timber. The time that it took to shapren your tools that you used during the project.
I think that we might sell ourselves short most of the time. Because we are afraid that no one will be the piece. A good rule of thumb that I use is to base your hourly rate on that of a mechanic. They can charge any where form 50 to 100 dollars an hour. If you built another desk you'll most likely it'll take you alot less time to make. But you'll be able to charge the same if not more.
I would sell it for no less than 3,000 but I think I would go for at least 3,800
Kaleo
http://www.kalafinefurniture.blogspot.com
did you ever sell the desk? if so how much did you get?
no, the interested party never contacted me, I am keeping it as a sample piece.
This forum post is now archived. Commenting has been disabled