I’m about to start finishing a cabinet project and plan to spray shellac as a first coat on the drawers and other parts but I had some trouble finding denatured alcohol. The big box stores used to carry it in 1 gal. cans by Klean Strip but I can’t find it anywhere locally. Ended up ordering some on-line from Quality Chemical (Denatured Alcohol – 190 proof).
My main question is – do you think 190 proof is good enough for use with shellac? Many of the reviewers indicate it is but then I don’t know how much experience these folks have. If it’s 190 proof then I guess the remainder is water (5%)? Will that cause issues with shellac?
Secondly – why do you think it’s so hard to find and are you having the same issue? I remember part of the label on Klean Strip was red and the SDS indicated it had a very high percentage of Methanol. Way more than necessary to make it denatured. I also saw a YouTube video (Epic Woodworking) where they mentioned the green labeled can that was mostly Ethanol but I can’t find that either.
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The alcohol you ordered is better than the store bought denatured alcohol that has methanol (a poison added so it can be sold to circumvent it being taxed and sold as a consumable product). At 190 proof it’s pure grain alcohol. It will work well for you to spray.
Thanks. That makes me feel better about what I bought.
Don't know where you are, but I see denatured alcohol in our stores all the time.
Maybe you are in CA, where there are lots of restrictions on things?
I'm in Texas so I'm not sure what's up. Can't find it on the Home Depot or Lowes web sites either.
Here's what I use, available on Amazon. Contains no methanol.
Ethyl Alcohol 99.5% Denatured 40-B 200 Proof Alcohol by Natural Cosmetic Labs | Made in The USA | Gallon - Pack of 1
Available on amazon for you. Not going to be shippable everywhere.
I live in California.
I'm just pointing out that because you can order it doesn't mean everyone can.
Thanks. I'll make a note of that of that for the next time.
Here is a piece I wrote a couple of years ago on the matter:
https://www.finewoodworking.com/2022/03/21/where-to-buy-denatured-alcohol
Thanks Ben! As always a very informative article. This type of thing doesn't always sink in until you need it.
Very good article. I'm lucky to not have encountered this problem (yet).
Is the banning of denatured alcohol sales an issue of (a) the environment, (b) health and safety, or (C) both?
In California the banning is based on identity politics and just plain wokeness, at least as far as some of the products go... such as denatured alcohol. No one is drinking it-- a cheap bottle of whiskey is less than a quart of denatured alcohol! All in all the stuff seems pretty benign compared to many other things. Some products I ve been denied purchasing in a gallon ..." can I have 4 quarts then?" and apparently I can! Some products are leaving the shelf voluntarily by the manufacturers for fear of litigation from home consumers! Didn't read the can and bad stuff happened. Plastic resin glue for example that I use and can't find. It's available for industry and not that much was sold at Ace so pull it ,its not worth the risk!. But in the case of denatured alcohol ,which I use quite alot of , it disappeared in California and then reappeared labeled "FUEL ". They haven't forced us into electric vehicles yet so they can't ban "fuel" to the things we own..yet.
You can't buy a gasoline powered lawn mower or weed whip in California but they couldn't ( they tried)make that rule for chainsaws because battery electric chainsaws have no place to plug in in the woods for recharging or they would require really,really long extension cords! They are trying in some areas, and that is in MY area, to prohibit gas home appliances in new construction. A judge put a hold on that ...
Careful here pantalones868. This is too close to insulting.
Thank you, Ben I was ready to reply with a pungent comment. That would not be constructive. Let’s all cool down.
Might check out this article: https://www.finewoodworking.com/2019/08/28/shellac-solvent-grain-alcohol-vs-denatured-alcohol
I have used denatured for years and also tried grain alcohol 190 proof.
About a year ago I finally gave Mohawk a try. It is by far the best I have ever used. Mohawk sells it by the gal. Klingspor has it in quarts. Amazon has it as well but it's almost double Klingspor's price
I can still get denatured which I now keep on hand for clean up only.
https://www.mohawk-finishing.com/products/wood-staining-finishing/reducers-additives/shellac-reducer/
There is also a company called Lab Alley that sells pure ethanol if you want that.
If price its't a concern try Everclear pure grain alcohol.
Agreed. Everclear is worth the price.
can you get isopropanol? I'm not in CA, so I don't have the same issue that some folks here do but the green klean strip stuff was my default and it's also gone here for the methanol rich type.
I bought 1 1/2 gallons of isopropanol not that long ago and it was about $35 or something. It's not as fast flashing from what I can tell and took longer to dissolve the flakes, but the finish on wood seems the same otherwise. Whatever I got claims an absurdly high purity almost 100%. If that's accurate, I don't know, but maybe it's different than getting the last couple of % out of ethanol.
I'm glad I don't live in CA based on things like this, but more based on the fact that I can afford to retire living in the midwest, and afford to not have a mortgage.
Maybe just delete that last paragraph? Politics is almost inescapable anymore and it'd be nice to find one refuge from it. A woodworking magazine sounds like a good place, no?
David's last paragraph was not over the line.
It’s politics, over the line or not. I don’t come to FWW for discussions of politics or economics. I can get that in endless sources. Their first two paragraphs are on the mark.
The third is political grandstanding about the state’s pollution regulations and cost of living.
I'm sorry, but you don't get to set the boundaries. I disagree about it being over the line—end of conversation.
When Lowes and Home Depot took it off the shelf here, I found that a local paint store and a local hardware store still carried it. We have no ban on it here. If it isn't banned in Texas, you may find it that way. Lowes and Home Depot have since brought it back.
Amazon sells 190 proof denatured ethanol (Quality Chemical Denatured Alcohol) at about $38 per gallon. It is not denatured with methanol, but rather with an extremely bitter substance which is noxious, but not toxic (at least in small quantities). Beats me why other makers couldn't also find better substitutes for methanol. BTY, you armchair chemists out there who think concerns about methanol are a joke, please tell us the basis for your opinions. Let's make this a no BS zone.
That’s what I ended up buying. Haven’t used it yet buy crossing my fingers.
Please let us know how it goes.
I am a chemist and don't play around with the potential for severe problems from methanol. It's not a problem until it is, and then it's too late.
The below is from NIOSH https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/ershdb/emergencyresponsecard_29750029.html
Methanol’s toxicity is due to its metabolic products. The by-products of methanol metabolism cause an accumulation of acid in the blood (metabolic acidosis), blindness, and death. Initial adverse health effects due to methanol poisoning include drowsiness, a reduced level of consciousness (CNS depression), confusion, headache, dizziness, and the inability to coordinate muscle movement (ataxia). Other adverse health effects may include nausea, vomiting (emesis), and heart and respiratory (cardiopulmonary) failure. Prognosis is poor in patient/victims with coma or seizure and severe metabolic acidosis (pH <7). Early on after methanol exposure, there may be a relative absence of adverse health effects. This does not imply insignificant toxicity. Methanol toxicity worsens as the degree of metabolic acidosis increases, and thus, becomes more severe as the time between exposure and treatment increases.
Adverse health effects from methanol poisoning may not become apparent until after an asymptomatic period of 1 to 72 hours.
Ingestion, inhalation or skin exposure produce the same effects.
Do we know anyone who has suffered these from using shellac with shelf denatured alcohol? not questioning the toxicity of methanol, that was long ago established, but rather the actual outcome of using it vs. something else. i doubt it's particularly healthy to breathe ethanol vapors even though they may not have the same acute toxicity. Or really any solvents.
And would suspect that some of the plastic solids finishes we use now (loosely used term plastic, I mean acrylics and especially those that have a crosslinker to improve them spraying) probably enjoy a "non-toxic" status right now that will not last through long term exposure as they're becoming the norm. Of course, most of the crosslinkers are already well known.
I use lab grade ethanol or isopropanol, and do not use methanol anything, but curious more about outcomes because my day job is measuring outcomes more than it is about supposing how they might occur compared to a different exposure (as in, most of the methanol issues are probably related to ill advised consumption).
All alcohols make me dizzy, so I tend to use shellac with the door open and gentle air movement.
This discussion is wandering a little into space I'm not expert in although peripheral to my main work I used to get involved in such discussions regularly. I did a quick google search on cases of inhalation poisoning from methanol and it seems most are reported as being abuse, either purposeful exposure for suicide or to get high. There have been a few cases reported of serious accidental exposure, none that I could find related to spraying shellac. One of those cases was a home perfume business that changed suppliers for their alcohol and resulted in the proprietor becoming seriously ill.
I have used various DNA's for years. Some Klean-Strip, some 190 proof, some 99.5%. I have never really noticed any difference in performance or longevity out here on the left coast. Those locations that have actual weather or altitude may experience a different result.
Thank you, wfhoffmaniii. Even worse than I knew before (I'm a biologist and I respect expert input). I'm now much more leery about the quart can in my shop.
It’s my understanding that “denatured” means “poisonous”. If they are not adding methanol then there is a different denaturing agent in it, and they don’t legally have to disclose what that is. The whole reason is to avoid the alcohol tax. You have no idea how any of those denaturing agents will affect the finish.
I switched to grain alcohol (Everclear 190 proof) from the liquor store and it is so much better. Smells better, shellac dissolves better. All around a better experience. And not poisonous!
I Beleive that if toxic, and it has to be toxic, the denaturing agent legally has to be mentionned in the Material Safety data sheet.
I’m happy to report that the Quality Chemical (Denatured Alcohol – 190 proof) I purchased, and which inspired this post, worked great. I thinned the Zinsser SealCoat about 20% and sprayed it on. No issues. Thanks for all the responses!