I bought a Freud Fusion blade and I experienced something weird:
Wile ripping, the piece to the left of the blade wants to kick back ! (not the piece between the blade and the fence).
Has anybody had a similar experience ? Is the blade somehow defective ?
I never had something like this happening before.
C.
Replies
Be careful. Any negative comments about Fraud products may have you banned from posting.
DJK
"Be careful. Any negative comments about Fraud products may have you banned from posting.
DJK"
DJK...by now most of us have realized that you have a grudge with Freud, and don't seem the least bit interested in allowing them to make amends regardless of what the problem was or what they offer in response.
There's always room for multiple views in a discussion, and I certainly want to hear negative experiences as well as good ones with any product, but I find the information much more useful and constructive when it's stated in a more objective and specific fashion. Many of your comments are pointless and childish at this point, and they seriously discredit YOUR reputation IMO. Not sure what you have go to gain by continually making snide remarks...sorry to be so critical but it's getting pretty lame.
Edited 2/1/2007 9:30 am ET by Knotscott
Thanks for the kind words. I did say I use Fraud blades for ripping construction material.DJK
Are you saying that the segment to the left is being lifted by the back saw teeth as they come out of the table. If so then the woods grain structure is causing the board to snap the kerf shut. Try a small wedge to open the kerf.
Citrouille, have you tried different stock to see if this is a consistent problem? (making sure it's not the wood). You will have no problem with Freud replacing the blade if there is a problem.
I'll send you Charles' email address via Knots.
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
It's definitely not the wood, the kick back happens AFTER the cut is completed.
It almost seems to me that there is some sort of suction being created, and only with relatively thin pieces but one of them whacked me pretty hard on one finger.C.
After the cut's completed? Weird. How does the cut look? Is it clean, no burning, no tooth marks on the stock?forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Thanks for Charlie's e-mail address,
The cut is clean, no burn marks, some tooth mark on both sides but very faint.
Today I inspected the blade tooth by tooth and one was broken almost in half length wise.
It almost looks like there was an air bubble in the carbide but how can that cause kick back ?
I will e-mail Charlie and see what he thinks.C.
A cracked tooth -- odd, and a candidate for mischief for sure. Let us know what Charles has to say (if he doesn't stop by in person of course).
BTW, there should be no tooth marks from that blade. I think it's really important to eliminate the possibility of any misalignment in your saw, and then to check the blade on the arbor to be sure everything's running straight and true. I use a 50-tooth combination blade by Freud (2 blades "down" the line from the Premier Fusion, and it performs flawlessly if I feed the stock right and there's nothing amiss with my saw set-up.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
I don't have that or any other blades from that maker. (Not for any particular reason other than when I first got into woodworking they weren't locally stocked and the blades I have are a long way from being worn out.) However most if not all my blades will behave as yours does and it doesn't matter which side of the blade the waste is on. Nor does it matter if it's a ripping or crosscutting cut. If the piece cut is thin it will sit aside the blade, and if it isn't thin enough to fall through the blade slot will "vibrate" against the spinning blade. With small crosscut offcuts they will sometimes move forward slowly, eventually stopping when some kind of balance of forces is reached and occasionally kick them back. With long strips the teeth will start moving it forward slowly until it catches and kicks it back. I think it happens a bit more with the dust collector on because the suction helps to hold the thin offcuts against the blade over and above the "fan" effect the blade produces on its own. If you usually have a dust collector running, try the cut with it off and see if it makes a difference. Otherwise remember that kickback can occur at anytime and to position yourself accordingly if your push stick doesn't carry both halves past the blade.
QC,
I have been doing this for a living for about 40 years, nothing like this ever happened to me before.
One interesting thing though: I have several blades and I occasionally change them for particular applications, my fence ruler is set up precisely and i can swap blades without having to readjust.
With this blade it was off about 1mm ! (the blade being further to the left).C.
citrouille,I replied to your email and hope that you will send the blade to me for evaluation. I would have also leaned toward an alignment problem but your last post adds a new wrinkle and deepens the mystery so my curiosity is piqued even more.
Charles M
Freud America, Inc.
Checked the alignment this morning all is as it should be.
It must be a fluke.
I will send you the blade, I am curious to know the cause of the problem.C.
Oh no!!! A bad Fraud blade! What is knots going to do. It sounds like a Fraud smear. DJK
DJK, what's your issue with Freud? Are you employed by a competitor but are scared to come forward? Did you have a bad experience with a Freud product frightening you as a child that left you with emotional scars? ;^)
Those are rhetorical questions so don't bother responding. Thankfully, I found that I can ignore your posts and have opted to do so starting immediately! Good day.
Charles M
Freud America, Inc.
You got it Chuck, emotional scars. I use Fraud blades all the time, great for ripping rough construction material.DJK
It seam to me we could only benefit from vendors presence in this forum. If some one has an issue with a product like has happened here or even discussion on product improvement it could only benefit us by there presents. But statements that are inflammatory will only lead them to the conclusion that they are wasting there time here. Hopefully we can keep it positive I for one appreciate there presence
Charles is pretty tough, I don't think DJK's snide and petty slams will have much affect on him. Did teach him a new trick, though....the "Ignore" button. Cool! ;-)forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Slo,
I agree with you. I posted this thread to see if this was a common problem or just one isolated defect (which I think it is).
Charles reaction was straight forward, send the blade back for evaluation (I did), he is as curious as I am to know the cause of the problem.
We are definitely not dealing with Laguna here !C.
<<Did you have a bad experience with a Freud product frightening you as a child that left you with emotional scars?>>Perhaps the other Freud explained this phenomenon best when he said, "Sometimes a blade is just a blade."
Or Kipling: "A woman is only a woman, but a good blade is a cutter."
Freud found one tooth to be defective but nothing wrong with the blade beside that.
They are replacing the blade.
I will have to take extra care when ripping small pieces with a 0 clearance insert.
Freud handled this situation (not really a huge deal) promptly and to my satisfaction.Thanks,C.
FG. while I don't have a lot of time on my saws in my new digs, both the contractor and the Unisaw are mounted with the red slick rip blades(thin rim and standard) and I have given them hard tasks, 3" cherry, 2" white oak, 3 1/2 " cedar very wet. No problem , cut clean as you could ask for . This looks like a one blade failure to me. I am sure that it will be accomidated. Now what do I do when I start cutting my hickory and black walnut in 24 months after we drop those trees ? Paddy
i've had that happen as well...but only when the cut resulted in the waste side being a narrow piece, like when ripping a 6" board to 5-5/8"
the thin waste strip starts to slowly move back towards you like it's floating against the side of the blade...
it usually happens to me when i'm using a zero clearance insert, maybe it has something to do with air flow around teh blade?
Is this the situation you are experiencing or does it happen with larger pieces of wood?
The first time it happened, it was with a piece roughly 1/4" thick 8" long and 2" wide,(the waste) a relatively small piece but it hit me very hard on the tip of two fnigers causing a deep cut in one.
It happened a couple more times, yes with small pieces and yes with a zero clearance insert.
The air flow theory makes sense.C.
A 1/4" thick piece is pretty light. You have infintely more hours at the saw than I do, so I bow to that experience, but I must say, thin material seems to carry its own set of dangerous characteristics. That aside, it sounds like your fingers were in the wrong place at the wrong time. Glad it wasn't your noggin'!!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
I call these benign incidents "warnings" in a way they should be almost welcome, they keep you "on your toes".C.
I noticed the same thing this last weekend as I was making some scrap and sawdust with my freud blade equipped tablesaw. I think if it weren't for the splitter and the featherboards I had clamped in place it might have been a very bad weekend for me. But it didn't feel like a design defect in the blade, because it only happened on one of the boards and I made ALOT of sawdust this weekend. Paul K. (and I was ripping 1/8" strips and I had the blade height maxed)
Edited 1/23/2007 7:07 pm ET by starburn
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