Replies

1. 
   Jfrostjr | Dec 25, 2005 07:42pm | #1

   This is not a specific answer to your question but it may haelp. Searching fpr a way to keep Walnut lighter than the normal really dark tone, I found that WB Polys were the answer.

   Therefore tried at least 10 different brands. General Finishes (Woodcraft) was by far the best. I brush my finishes and can get a mirror gloss on a brushed finish by moving up though the sandpaper grades and finally using Abralon pads (Homestead Finishes) on a RO sander up to 4,000 grit.

   No other WB product I tried allowed me to acheive these results.

   Good Luck !

   Jerry

1. 
   DougU | Dec 25, 2005 11:45pm | #5

   Thanks Jerry, how many coats of finish are you applying if your going to 4000 grit?

   Doug

1. 
   Jfrostjr | Dec 27, 2005 05:06pm | #9

   Sorry to be slow with my response but we had 30 over yesterday for our "day after Christmas" family romp in the snow.I generally put on 4 - 6 coats before I begin the finishing. Two days is plenty of time to apply this many coats because the stuff dries so fast. I get 3 coats a day. A good brush is a must. I got mine from Jeff Jewett at Homestead. I think it is called Dalkon. At any rate the bristles are Orange colored.I pre-wet the brush and after use I rinse the brush thoroughly, rub it on a bar of soap and rinse some more. After several years and countless coats the brush is good as new. I love the process because the set-up and clean-up ar so quick and simple, while the reults are so good, professionals think it was sprayed.Jerry

1. 
   DougU | Dec 27, 2005 07:24pm | #10

   Thanks Jerry

   I'll have to give that a good looking at.

   Doug

2. 
   Sancho | Dec 25, 2005 08:31pm | #2

   Some spray better than others. Some are formulated just for spraying.

    
1. 
   DougU | Dec 25, 2005 11:48pm | #6

   Ron

   That's why I went to a paint store hoping that they might steer me in the right direction if I told them what I was doing. I guess it being Friday before the big holiday they weren't to concerned with my stupid q's!

   Thanks

   Doug

1. 
   Sancho | Dec 27, 2005 06:22am | #7

   Could be I dunno.

   But I only use w/b poly now and am happy. The stuff I use is from compliantspraysystems.com it is called enduro. Jeff Jewett also sells some pretty good stuff his site is homesteadfinishing.com.

   Maybe they can hook ya up.  

1. 
   DougU | Dec 27, 2005 07:04am | #8

   Thanks Ron

   I have a little job that needs a finish on it and since I kinda mastered the Minwax W/B I'm going to finish with it but I need to switch to something else for a big kitchen.

   I'll give both of those places that you mentioned a looksee!

   Doug

1. 
   HowardAcheson | Dec 27, 2005 07:48pm | #11

   >> since I kinda mastered the Minwax W/B I'm going to finish with it but I need to switch to something else for a big kitchenWhy? A big job is not the place to learn something new. If you know how to handle the Minwax, I would suggest you stay with it.Learn a new finish on something less complex. Or, better yet, practice on cardboard boxes until you are familier with the handling characteristics of a new finish. All finishs have some differences.Howie.........

2. 
   DougU | Dec 28, 2005 03:35am | #13

   Howie

   The reason that I thought that I'd switch to W/B lac is because I thought it would be better then the Minwax? I really dont know, just asking.

   I sprayed 1/2 dozen boxes yesterday with the minwax and got great results, I just wondered if there isnt something better?

   Thanks

   Doug

3. 
   HowardAcheson | Dec 28, 2005 06:07pm | #14

   There is really little difference between waterboarne "varnish" and waterborne "lacquer".  Both use exactly the same technology and resins.  It's mostly a marketing decision whether a manufacturer decides to call their product a "varnish" or a "lacquer". 

   You'll probably find little difference between the performance of the two.  Durablility is pretty much the same.Howie.........

4. 
   DougU | Dec 28, 2005 10:13pm | #15

   Howie

   Thanks, thats good to know, that will make it easier to stick with what is working good for me.

   Maybe when I get some more time I'll play around with different products, for now, it'll be Minwax!

   Doug

5. 
   Elcoholic | Dec 28, 2005 10:32pm | #17

   My general impression is that consumer finishing products like Minwax are targeted for homeowners who generally aren't going to have spray equipment so they're optimized for brushing or wiping.  Products found at professional finishing suppliers (Mohawk, Enduro, etc.) may be optimized for spraying and yield better results in my experience.  W/B finishes can't be thinned like nitro-lacquer for spraying without altering the chemistry and compromising the finish quality.  I've sprayed Enduro straight from the can with turbine HVLP and conventional spray guns and achieved the best results (least orange peel) with HVLP.  Especially so with the Accuspray guns sold by Compliant which are most likely optimized for their Enduro products.  I can't say my technique is practiced enough to be prime time ready straight from the gun, but I get close.John O'Connell - JKO Handcrafted Woodworking

   The more things change ...

   We trained hard, but it seemed that every time we were beginning to form up into teams, we would be reorganized.  I was to learn later in life that we tend to meet any new situation by reorganizing; and a wonderful method it can be for creating the illusion of progress while producing confusion, inefficiency, and demoralization.

   Petronious Arbiter, 210 BC

6. 
   DougU | Dec 29, 2005 01:20am | #18

   Thanks John

   I figured that a product such as those that you mentioned would be better as well. I assumed what you said about the minwax but it was the only thing available and I wanted  to get moving with it!

   I started with the Minwax on this small job and now I figure I aught to finish with it but I'm going to try some of the stuff that you mentioned.

   Thanks a lot

   Doug

7. 
   jazzdogg | Dec 29, 2005 03:19am | #19

   "I've sprayed Enduro straight from the can with turbine HVLP"

   Hi John,

   Using an HVLP turbine is a tankless job if I've ever heard of one (sorry, I couldn't resist).

   Have you tried the Enduro water-borne pore filler? I love it!

    

    -Jazzdogg-

   "Don't ask yourself what the world needs. Ask yourself what makes you come alive, and go do that, because what the world needs is people who have come alive." Gil Bailie

8. 
   Elcoholic | Dec 29, 2005 10:36pm | #20

   Nice pun jd.  I haven't tried it but I will.  Does it come in various colors or do you just tint it to suit?John O'Connell - JKO Handcrafted Woodworking

   The more things change ...

   We trained hard, but it seemed that every time we were beginning to form up into teams, we would be reorganized.  I was to learn later in life that we tend to meet any new situation by reorganizing; and a wonderful method it can be for creating the illusion of progress while producing confusion, inefficiency, and demoralization.

   Petronious Arbiter, 210 BC

9. 
   jazzdogg | Dec 29, 2005 10:40pm | #21

   I've tinted it with Japan colors with good results.

   It is very "creamy" and easy to work, and provides a lot of open time.-Jazzdogg-

   "Don't ask yourself what the world needs. Ask yourself what makes you come alive, and go do that, because what the world needs is people who have come alive." Gil Bailie

10. 
    Sancho | Dec 30, 2005 07:05am | #22

    If I was spraying a kitchen (You mentioned you had one aa a future project) I would add the crosslinker that enduro sells for their product. It makes the enduro 5-7xs more water and scratch resistant. FWIW enduro is rated by the manufacturer as a product that can be used on exterior projuects also.

    So you will be making a already tough material even tougher. They also make a amber tinted poly to give it a o/b yellow look. If you want the project to have a natural wood finish they make a very flat (forgot what they actually call it) poly that will leave virtually no sheen on the wood and give it a unfinished appearance. 

11. 
    DougU | Dec 30, 2005 04:05pm | #23

    Ron

    Where do I get enduro? Is that the stuff you mention from Compliant.com?

    Thanks

    Doug

    Edited 12/30/2005 8:07 am ET by DougU

12. 
    Sancho | Dec 30, 2005 06:38pm | #25

    Theres only 2 places I know that sell it. Compliant which is near you it is in San Clemente and Austins in Santa Ana near the train station. 

    If ya figure the price of shipping it would be cheaper for ya to drive to San Clemente and get some or if ya want to cheack out a good lumber yard with alot of great hardware and tools go to Austins. You could make a day of it and take the train and its almost accross the street from the train station in Santa Ana

     

    Edited 12/30/2005 10:41 am by Sancho

13. 
    DougU | Dec 30, 2005 09:04pm | #27

    I see Santa Ana is only 160 miles away, that may make for a nice ride! Didnt find San Clememte on the mapquest?

    Are you saying the name of the place is "Austins" I'm assuming so.

    I'll have to try and give them a call.

    Thanks

    Doug

14. 
    Sancho | Dec 31, 2005 03:39am | #29

    San Clemente is where compliant is at. You can order directly from them . Austins Hardwood and Hardware is the business other than compliant that sells it. They are in Santa Ana but I dont think they ship. 

15. 
    DougU | Dec 31, 2005 07:33am | #31

    I wonder what the difference between that Austin Hardwood that you mention and the Austin Hardwood that I use to purchase all my ply and solid woods from?

    I'll have to call and find out.

    I know at one time Austin Hardwoods was a franchise that you could buy into,(in the older FWW they had advertisments) there is one in southern California some place and there are several scatered throughout the nation. Not all of them are affiliated with each other anymore. Wonder if thats where the one you mention comes from, have to look into it.

    Thanks for all the info , sounds like a product that I need to try.

    Doug

16. 
    Sancho | Dec 31, 2005 08:22pm | #32

    You know now that you mention it they used to have one in San Diego listed it in their advertisements. There is also a store in Vegas with the same name. I dont know it that one is affiliated or not. 

17. 
    Elcoholic | Dec 28, 2005 10:17pm | #16

    Compliant makes two basic w/b finishes EnduroLaq and EnduroPoly.  I have only used the poly.John O'Connell - JKO Handcrafted Woodworking

    The more things change ...

    We trained hard, but it seemed that every time we were beginning to form up into teams, we would be reorganized.  I was to learn later in life that we tend to meet any new situation by reorganizing; and a wonderful method it can be for creating the illusion of progress while producing confusion, inefficiency, and demoralization.

    Petronious Arbiter, 210 BC

2. 
   Elcoholic | Dec 28, 2005 03:21am | #12

   I'll second Enduropoly as a very good w/b, sprayable finish.John O'Connell - JKO Handcrafted Woodworking

   The more things change ...

   We trained hard, but it seemed that every time we were beginning to form up into teams, we would be reorganized.  I was to learn later in life that we tend to meet any new situation by reorganizing; and a wonderful method it can be for creating the illusion of progress while producing confusion, inefficiency, and demoralization.

   Petronious Arbiter, 210 BC

3. 
   HowardAcheson | Dec 25, 2005 08:50pm | #3

   Every finish acts differently when sprayed.  Even the temperature and humidity have an affect.  I would suggest you get Charron's Spray Finishing.  It will give the info you need to analyze the spray and determine the thinning, needle size and compresser pressure.

   Then, practice on cardboard cartons.  Spraying is not something you pick up and do.  In the shop I was involved with our apprentice finishers spent a week or more just learning how to thin and to analyze the spray pattern and lay down of the finish.  Making the correct adjustments in the correct sequence is important.  It was at least a couple of weeks before the apprentices were allowed to spray any real things.

   Spraying is something that must be learned and practised.  Contrary to what many think, it is not easy or intuitive and does not automatically lead to a better finish.

   Howie.........
1. 
   DougU | Dec 25, 2005 11:43pm | #4

   Howie

   Thanks, I have sprayed quite a bit before but its always been lacquer and with an airless.

   I have also used an HVLP before but only to apply stains. Pretty hard to screw that up as well!

   I've always thought that a monkey could spray lac but this W/B stuff is getting the best of me.

   Today I just lined up a bunch of scraps of ply and I think I got the hang of how much product to put on and the distance to hold the gun, its just knowing the product that I have to grasp. I should have prefaced this with Minwax W/B being the product of choice today, I dont know why the darn paint stores arnt open to accomidate me today!

   I assume that Charron's is a book, I'll hunt it down and get a copy.

   Do you know if the W/B lac will spray like the solvent based or will it be more like the urethane?

   Again Thanks

   Doug

4. 
   jim | Dec 30, 2005 04:33pm | #24

   DougU;

   Did you use a viscosity cup?  In all spray finish discussions here I never hear any speak of one.  Used to spray cars in a body shop and we never sprayed paint without testing in a cup.  Auto paint is far more particulair than wood finishes.  It takes less than a minute to test and you will be sure you have the proper viscosity.

   Good luck,

   Jim

    

1. 
   DougU | Dec 30, 2005 08:58pm | #26

   Jim

   No, I didnt use a viscosity cup.

   To tell you the truth I'm not sure how to and what for.

   Yea, I understand that the viscosity of the finish is important, but thats about all I know on the subject.

   Enlighten me, please

   Doug

1. 
   jim | Dec 31, 2005 12:27am | #28

   Doug;

   The cup I use is a #4 Ford cup.  I believe i purchased it from homestead finishing, at least they have one on their site.

   Basically a viscosity works like this; you fill it with finish and time how long it takes to drain out. 

   The manufacture of your finish will tell you how long it takes to drain out of what ever model of cup you have[if it does not say on the can an email usually brings a quick answer] to be at optimal spray conditions.  My cup comes with a conversion chart because the are several different makes of viscosity cups.

   I hope this helps. Remember viscosity is resistance to flow. More means thicker.

   Regards,

   Jim

1. 
   DougU | Dec 31, 2005 07:28am | #30

   Thanks Jim

   I'll look into that. Seams like that will take some or all of the guess work out of this!

   Doug

5. 
   art3427 | Jan 01, 2006 12:39am | #33

   Unless you rinsed the new gun with thinner before applying the material, it is possible there was a residue of oil in the gun from manufacturing. 

    

   art johnson

1. 
   DougU | Jan 01, 2006 07:29am | #34

   Art

   Someone else mentioned that to me and since I have ran about a gallon of Minwax urethane through it without problems, not saying that I didnt get it all rinsed out from the initial spraying, I should at least give the original stuff a try. Otherwise I'm sitting with just short of a gallon of expensive finish!

   Doug