Replies

1. 
   MarkRD | Jul 06, 2005 09:06pm | #1

   How about a coat of clear paste wax? I know it's not solving the problem, just masking it but at least it's something different...

   Mark

   Measure it with a micrometer, mark it with chalk, cut it with an ax.

1. 
   Shalom | Jul 09, 2005 05:22am | #6

   Thanks for the thought Mark, and for responding. My problem with your suggestion is that I'm talking about a kitchen table that gets washed with soap at least once a day. The paste wax would simply wash off. Shalom

2. 
   Ardito | Jul 06, 2005 09:09pm | #2

   Shalom,

   It definitely sounds like you have a "curing" problem of the Waterlox.  Is it humid in your area when you are applying the Waterlox?  Also...I don't understand why you would need 7 coats of Waterlox, 3 coats would be plenty for a kitchen table.  My guess is that one of the coats did not cure in the 24 hours and it is causing these problems now in the additional coats. 

   Do you sand between coats?  It was always my understanding that Polyurethane doesn't "melt" into the previous layer like Shellac does...so you need to make sure the previous layer was fully cured and was scuffed so adhesion would be good with the next coat.

    

1. 
   Shalom | Jul 09, 2005 05:29am | #7

   I think you're right. Twenty four hours may not have been enough curing time for each application. The question I have now though is how to fix it. I cannot imobilize our kitchen table for weeks on end. My thought is to just cover it with a coat of poly. Perhaps the wipe on poly recomended by FWW. Will that seal the surface enough to stop the transfer of newspaper print onto the table? As for the number of coats I applied. The person who sold the Waterlox to me actually suggested I do eight coats. Thanks for your insight.Shalom

3. 
   HowardAcheson | Jul 07, 2005 12:47am | #3

   I suspect you have applied way too many coats.  The Sealer/Finish is a high oil content material that will always be soft.  It is not the type of finish I would use on a everyday table.  It's just too soft.  For example the reason you are getting the ink transfer is that ink contains lots of oil.  The oil in the table finish is softening the newprint ink and causing it to be transfered to the table.

   For tabletops the Sealer/Finish should be overcoated with a hard drying film finish. should be overcoated with one of there varnish or poly varnish products.  These products leave a hard surface.

   Now, another question.  How old it the Waterlox.  Waterlox has a fairly short shelf life and many report problems with it when it approaches a year old.  The time is shortened if the can has been opened frequently.

   If it were me, I would strip the table, put on a single or two coats of Sealer/Finish and then a couple of coats of their varnish.  You will be much happier.

   BTW, is the table a true end grain butcher block or an edge grain laminated top?

    

   Howie.........

   
   

   ---

   Edited 7/6/2005 5:49 pm ET by Howie

1. 
   3fingers | Jul 07, 2005 01:35am | #4

   your problem is quite curious. 

   As the other post have stated the 7 coats is to much.  They are completely WRONG!  7 is right, but how heavy are the last coats?  The final coats are thin layers.  the first 3 penetrate the wood.  the rest lay on top of the surface. try thin coats.

   One problem may be age of waterlox, if that is the case add japan drier with another thin coat of waterlox.  or contact the company and ask them.  I also would like to know their answer.

   one other thing sand with 220 to get rid of the old and apply a couple of new thin coats.

2. 
   Shalom | Jul 09, 2005 05:41am | #8

   Thanks for your insight Howie. The table is not an end grain one. The wood is about 2" thick and is laid flat in 1 1/2 inch strips. I thought that Waterlox would be the "perfect" hard drying finish. That's what the people on their help line said when I asked if it was as durable as poly. So I appreciate the info you provided. Now, can I apply poly over this without damgeing the surface? Starting from scratch will involve large legal fees. My wife just won't tolerate another adventure in her kitchen. She's been saying all along that Waterlox is fine on my furniture but NOT on her kitchen table. Would the Minwax wipe on poly recommended in FWW provide a surface hard enough to withstand the rigors of the Sunday New York Times? Thanks again. This discussion has been amzzingly helpful. Shalom

1. 
   HowardAcheson | Jul 09, 2005 05:34pm | #10

   I have used lots of Waterlox Original Sealer/Finish but I would not use it uncoated on a kitchen table.  As I have said, it's a very soft, oil rich product that does not give a hard finish.  Using it as a sealer by applying one, or at most two, coats followed by one of the Waterlox varnishes will give you a hard, durable surface. 

   Waterlox makes two basic varnishes you can use for your table.  The first are the gloss or satin Waterlox Original varnishes or the gloss or satin Waterlox Oil-modified Urethanes.  Both produce hard, durable finish when applied according to the directions.

   I would clean off all the gunk you currently have on the tabletop and go with what I suggest above.

   Oh, finally, be aware that any oil based finish dries to the touch fairly rapidly but cures over a number of weeks.  Until fully cured, the finish is still somewhat soft.  The more coats you apply the longer it takes to cure.  It is a mistake to put on too many coats of finish.  Allow the table to fully cure for 3-4 weeks before subjecting it to abuse or hot or cold dishware.  Use trivits, coaters and place mats but remove them to allow the tabletop finish to off-gas and cure.Howie.........

1. 
   ClevelandEd | Jul 09, 2005 08:05pm | #11

   Allow the table to fully cure for 3-4 weeks

   Based on what shalom has said, this is going to put him in a difficult predicament with his wife.

   I'm wondering if you have had experience with Waterlox on a semi-softwood floor, such as my 150 year old poplar. 

    

4. 
   Piffin | Jul 07, 2005 02:56am | #5

   I have used as many as eleven coats.

   but since it cures by oxygen and drys by off gassing, it is imperative that each and every coat be totally cured before applying the next coat, or it will be separated from the air and prevented from further curing/hardening by subsequent coats. Uncured underlying coats will always have a bit of gel to them. In humid air, off gassing is slow. In low temps off gassing is slow. I have let it have as much as seven days between coats.

    

    

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1. 
   Shalom | Jul 09, 2005 05:54am | #9

   Fascinating. It may very well be that 24 hours was not enough time between coats. I actually did make the last coats thinner. I never heard of Japan dryer. I'll look for it. I can't spend too much time on this table because my wife will kick me out of the house. She's said, over my objections, that Waterlox is too soft for a kitchen table. I didn't listen because I was getting "expert" advice from the people who sold it to me. Question: will a poly coat seal the table so that I can again read the newspaper at breakfast time, or do I go to the expense of hiring a divorce lawyer? Thanks for having taken the time to join this conversation. It's a real education. Shalom

5. 
   KyleZ | Jul 09, 2005 11:00pm | #12

   shalom,

   I had the exact same problem with the maple edgebanding on a tile topped breakfast bar.  I originally finished it with a homemade Danish oil finish (BLO, poly, thinner).  I also got black marks from the newspaper/my hands.  My solution was a couple coats of wipe on poly over the original finish (after a quick clean up with thinner).

   Cheers

   Kyle

1. 
   Shalom | Jul 09, 2005 11:36pm | #13

   Thanks Kyle, that's exactly what I'm going to do. I really did believe that Waterlox was the "end all and be all." This conversation has been a Godsend. Shalom

1. 
   AlbionWood | Jul 10, 2005 06:38am | #14

   I'd be inclined to scrape the soft stuff off with a card scraper, give it a couple days, then add the wipe-on poly. A card scraper will quickly remove soft, semi-cured finishes, and that way you won't have a bunch of soft gunk under your poly. Also it will leave a nice level surface.Edit: As Howie pointed out, Waterlox makes three different finishes. All are great, but they do different things. Sounds like you tried to use the Sealer as if it were a Varnish... the Sealer is basically a "Danish oil" with more solids than most. I think it is great stuff, but no single finish is the "be-all and end-all!""Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler." A. Einsteinhttp://www.albionworks.net

   Edited 7/9/2005 11:50 pm ET by AlbionWood

1. 
   Shalom | Jul 10, 2005 03:29pm | #15

   Thanks for your suggestion. I'm afraid I don't know what a "card scraper" is. I had intended to wash the table with paint thinner, sand, wash again and apply poly. I agree that it would be good to get the gunk off. Shalom

1. 
   AlbionWood | Jul 10, 2005 06:14pm | #16

   A card scraper is a thin rectangular piece of steel that is sharpened in a special way. (Briefly: The edge is filed and stoned to a perfect 90 degree corner, then rubbed with a hard steel rod to form a very small hook with a sharp edge.) It is used to scrape the surface of wood, producing extremely thin shavings and leaving a smooth, slightly burnished surface, almost like a plane. They are cheap (you can make them yourself out of old saw blades) and very easy to sharpen and use. Lots of articles have been written about them and lots of discussions here about sharpening and using them. I can't imagine woodworking without them.The problem I foresee with the mineral-spirits wash is that the oil has already cured to some degree, and won't dissolve. The prolem with sanding is that the finish may be too soft - it will only clog up the sandpaper. But no harm can be done at this stage by trying it, I think! And I must admit this is pure speculation on my part. Give it a shot, what do you have to lose?But I encourage you to read more about card scrapers and learn to use them."Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler."  A. Einstein

   http://www.albionworks.net

2. 
   Shalom | Jul 10, 2005 07:35pm | #17

   Thank you. I'll see if I can find one. Shalom