Replies

1. 
   HowardAcheson | Oct 31, 2003 06:11pm | #1

   Normally, wiping varnish is made by mixing clear varnish and mineral spirits in about a 50/50 ratio. I find it better to use standard mineral spirits. "Odorless" mineral spirits acts as a retarder and slows the drying of finishes. As long as the material was fresh and the item is kept at above 65 degrees, it should eventually dry.

   Wipe it on with a smooth, lint-free rag or a non-embossed paper towel. The rag should be wet but no where near dripping. Think of the kid at Denny's wiping your table. That's about the right amount of dampness and technique. You should not see any glossiness of thickness of material. Just get it on. Do not go back for spots you missed--you'll get them with the next coat. Let it become tack-free (should take only an hour at most) and apply a second coat. The finish will look lousy after just two coats. Let the second coat dry for 24-48 hours and sand it flat with 320 paper. Now apply 3-4 more coats one after the other. You do not need to sand between coats as long as the prior coat has been on for 24 hours or less. If you do sand, just do it lightly with 400 paper. Take extra care with the last coat. Let the whole thing dry until it no longer emits an odor which could be 3-4 weeks in cool areas or higher humidity. After is is fully cured, you can decide whether the "finish the finish".

   
   

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   Edited 10/31/2003 11:36:03 AM ET by Howie

2. 
   hammer1 | Nov 01, 2003 04:15am | #2

   Don't fall victim to homemade brews. Thinning a product by 25%? If you want a wiping poly buy one.Turco and Bartley make some nice ones. Back in the middle ages when I started woodworking there was very little info available. We learned from Uncle Zip. As cleaver as I thought he was, old Zip was no match for the biologists, engineers, and scientists not to mention the experimentation and experience that the manufacturers bring to the table. I remember the time old Zip had me boiling raw linseed oil on the wood stove so we could have boiled linseed oil. Don't get me wrong, I loved Zip and learned many usefull lessons although we could have done with a few less fires.

1. 
   HowardAcheson | Nov 01, 2003 10:46pm | #4

   There is certainly nothing wrong with purchasing a ready mixed wiping varnish. My personal aversion is two fold. First there are varnishes I like and varnishes I don't like. When I thin my own, I know what it am getting. After all, when the thinner evaporates, you are left with just a varnish. Second, all the wiping varnishes I have seen cost more per volume than a comparable amount of full strength varnish. When all the manufacturer has done is add additional thinner, it's like buying water downed bourbon IMO.

   I occasionally purchase Formby's Tung Oil Finish which is a thinned varnish because it comes in small amounts. If I have a small job where I want a very clear, non-yellowing finish, the Formby's is a nice product.

1. 
   hammer1 | Nov 02, 2003 01:24am | #5

   Any of the wiping polys, not oils or varnishes, I have used are very thick and paste like. I always figure that after all the work and materials I have committed to a project that spending a few bucks for a good finish is worth it. I have ruined some projects in the past by trying to mix my own brew and do not recommend it. If you contact a manufacturer and ask, not many will advise tampering with their product too much. Campben said he had problems, right? Additives are ok with some, others no. The Turco product I used to refinish a Hoozier cabinet that has been in my kitchen for 20 yrs. and has stood up very well with not much care.

   Edited 11/1/2003 6:33:20 PM ET by Hammer

1. 
   HowardAcheson | Nov 02, 2003 04:26am | #6

   >>Any of the wiping polys, not oils or varnishes, I have used are very thick and paste like

   Sure you are not thinking of gel polys? The gels are wiped on also but they are thick as paste. Watco wiping poly, Minwax wiping poly and others I have tested are all almost as thin as water.

   BTW, poly is a varnish. It's varnish that has had polyurethane added to it to make it more scratch and heat resistant. I tend it refer to varnish as a generic term covering all types of varnish such as poly varnish, spar varnish, etc.

   Get a small container of Formby's Tung Oil finish. You'll see what I mean about "thin". It's a good wiping varnish but you can make the same thing. When you add a thinner to oil based varnish, you are not changing it's basic properties. It's the same as thinning it for spraying. There is just less varnish in a given quantity of material. You need more coats to get a given film thickness.

1. 
   Gretchen | Nov 02, 2003 05:41pm | #7

   I have been making 50/50 varnish/mineral spirits (or turpentine originally) for about 40 years--long before the manufacturers made "wiping varnishes" for sale. Gretchen

2. 
   hammer1 | Nov 03, 2003 03:29am | #9

   Campben's original message stated that a manufactured product had been thinned 25% and there were problems with drying. You can considder all top coat finishes "varnish" if that works for you but there are significant differences. I use Formbys Tung oil and I like all their products but tung oil is not poly. It says clearly on the can not to use over other finishes except penetrating oils. It does not list all acceptable penetrating oils so, for me, I would call customer support if I had a doubt. By the way there is also a by-product from the paper making industry called tung oil as well as a lining in tin cans called tung oil. I think it is important to be specific particularly when trying to solve problems. I also have used Deft but the product was a nitrocellulose laquer not a poly, I'm not sure what mixing with mineral spirits would do but I'm not likley to try. Shellac has been used for centuries both as a sealer and a top coat. In the USA we used shellac under laquer as well as linseed oil based varnish for many years. Shellac is not water or alcohol resistant, it turns yellow and has no UV protection. Today many of us are trying to eliminate solvents from our shops. On a recent trip to Firenza, Italy I visited a furniture repair and finishing shop. The smell of turpentine was familiar. I speak Italian perfectly wrong so I don't know all that they were doing. Their concoctions were in unlabled glass jars but it sure looked and smelled like linseed oil varnish. Certainly their experience and methods outdate mine by several thousand years. I'm no finishing expert but I have goofed up some projects by altering or mixing my own brews. The manufacturers are the experts when it comes to their own products so I read the directions and follow the recommendations concerning safety as well as use. I have a feeling that the manufacturers have determined the correct balance of driers and other additives for the product. If I alter that product do I not affect that proportional balance? If I then have problems who do I turn to? Forums like this one I suppose.

   Edited 11/2/2003 8:21:22 PM ET by Hammer

3. 
   douglesso | Nov 01, 2003 06:46am | #3

   I posted a similar problem. I was brushing poly over shellac it turned a whitish green. The frustrating part is that I couldn't tell what was causing the problem. I tested all of the variables that I could, but I couldn't figure out what made it blotch or blush in some areas. I've pretty much given up on poly over any other type of finish or stain that isn't from the same manufacturer. As far as wiping varnish, I really liked the oil varnish products from woodworkers supply. Hope this helps.

1. 
   PlaneWood | Nov 02, 2003 10:20pm | #8

   Doug -

   Some poly's specifically say on the can not to use them over shellac.  I use primarily Deft brand and have never had a problem thinning it and wiping it on, but I've never used it over shellac.  Some people have reported no problems using poly over shellac.

   Blushing of shellac or lacquer is caused by moisture being trapped under the surface due to their rapid drying.  A retarder can help with lacquer.  I find that a gentle breeze from working outside or from a shop fan really helps also.

   Is there anything that will retard shellac??

   PlaneWood by Mike_in_Katy (maker of fine sawdust!)PlaneWood